No Flag airgorden
Crossbow
Posts: 16

11 Jul 2018, 03:14

I have a few question I'd like to get cleared up. Does the age 3 Acupuncture card effect the Heavy Cannon train time from the factory? and does Acupuncture (-20%), Team Engineering (-20%) and Mass Production (-25%) all stack to decrease Heavy Cannon train time or only the latter two?
Germany duckzilla
Musketeer
Posts: 84

11 Jul 2018, 07:03

As far as I understood it, heavy cannons are only affected by the team card Engineering School and even there only by 5% instead of the full 20%. This is also true for the other cards which reduce artillery train time. They always have a weaker effect (10%) for heavy cannons/bombards/congreve rockets.
This is mainly because a train time reduction to heavy cannons is effectively a cost reduction to it.

Let's do some calculation: A heavy cannon takes 115 seconds to train at the factory. This is an equivalent of ~822 ressources which could have been produced by the factory in the same time. The train time can be reduced by a factory upgrade (-25%), the standard faster artillery train cards (-10%) and the chinese team cards (-5%) to a total of -40% which yields a train time 69 seconds per unit or an equivalent cost of ~493 ressources.

In your case, you should be able to stack the team card and the factory upgrade for a total of -30% train time.

(not sure whether mass production has any effect on heavy cannon)
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Great Britain Hazza54321
Jaeger
Posts: 4359

11 Jul 2018, 12:02

I think it affects all units, even vills
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Germany duckzilla
Musketeer
Posts: 84

11 Jul 2018, 12:51

If it affects heavy cannons, then China is, counter-intuitively, the best nation to produce heavy cannons. You would be able to stack it to -55%, allowing heavy cannons to be produced in 52 seconds at a price of 370 ressources, which makes it the cheapest cannon (by far!) in the entire game.

I still doubt that the card also affects heavy cannons. Maybe I will have a look at the game files when I'm home later.
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France Aykin Haraka
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11 Jul 2018, 13:33

the real question is why Tokyo is the capita... oh nvm
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No Flag airgorden
Crossbow
Posts: 16

11 Jul 2018, 16:06

duckzilla wrote:As far as I understood it, heavy cannons are only affected by the team card Engineering School and even there only by 5% instead of the full 20%. This is also true for the other cards which reduce artillery train time. They always have a weaker effect (10%) for heavy cannons/bombards/congreve rockets.
This is mainly because a train time reduction to heavy cannons is effectively a cost reduction to it.

Let's do some calculation: A heavy cannon takes 115 seconds to train at the factory. This is an equivalent of ~822 ressources which could have been produced by the factory in the same time. The train time can be reduced by a factory upgrade (-25%), the standard faster artillery train cards (-10%) and the chinese team cards (-5%) to a total of -40% which yields a train time 69 seconds per unit or an equivalent cost of ~493 ressources.

In your case, you should be able to stack the team card and the factory upgrade for a total of -30% train time.

(not sure whether mass production has any effect on heavy cannon)


Thanks for this. And you are correct. I just got to try it in game and only the 25% from Mass Production and 5% percent from Team Engineering School. So Acupucture doesn't effect the heavy cannon train time which is a bit sad considering it does lower the Flying Crow from the wonder. Kinda wish China was simply able to produce the flying crow from the factory but I guess it would be OP :P.
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New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
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11 Jul 2018, 16:26

duckzilla wrote:As far as I understood it, heavy cannons are only affected by the team card Engineering School and even there only by 5% instead of the full 20%

(not sure whether mass production has any effect on heavy cannon)
That's a bit of a mess.

1. TEAM Engineering School effect is -30% – not -20%.
2. Literally the only thing "Mass Production" does is decrease the base train-time of Great Bombards, Heavy Cannons and Rockets by 25%. What did you think it does?
3. Acupuncture decreases the base train-points of everything but Monks and Summer Palace & Confucian Academy units by 20%.
4. With all three effects combined, a Factory trains Heavy Cannons in half the base time (twice as fast).
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New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
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Location: Ramadanistan

11 Jul 2018, 16:28

airgorden wrote:
duckzilla wrote:As far as I understood it, heavy cannons are only affected by the team card Engineering School and even there only by 5% instead of the full 20%. This is also true for the other cards which reduce artillery train time. They always have a weaker effect (10%) for heavy cannons/bombards/congreve rockets.
This is mainly because a train time reduction to heavy cannons is effectively a cost reduction to it.

Let's do some calculation: A heavy cannon takes 115 seconds to train at the factory. This is an equivalent of ~822 ressources which could have been produced by the factory in the same time. The train time can be reduced by a factory upgrade (-25%), the standard faster artillery train cards (-10%) and the chinese team cards (-5%) to a total of -40% which yields a train time 69 seconds per unit or an equivalent cost of ~493 ressources.

In your case, you should be able to stack the team card and the factory upgrade for a total of -30% train time.

(not sure whether mass production has any effect on heavy cannon)


Thanks for this. And you are correct. I just got to try it in game and only the 25% from Mass Production and 5% percent from Team Engineering School. So Acupucture doesn't effect the heavy cannon train time which is a bit sad considering it does lower the Flying Crow from the wonder. Kinda wish China was simply able to produce the flying crow from the factory but I guess it would be OP :P.
Completely wrong. Acupuncture does affect Heavy Cannon train time but not the Flying Crows from the Confucian Academy. Please see my above post for more facts relating to your question.
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No Flag airgorden
Crossbow
Posts: 16

11 Jul 2018, 16:30

zoom wrote:
airgorden wrote:
duckzilla wrote:As far as I understood it, heavy cannons are only affected by the team card Engineering School and even there only by 5% instead of the full 20%. This is also true for the other cards which reduce artillery train time. They always have a weaker effect (10%) for heavy cannons/bombards/congreve rockets.
This is mainly because a train time reduction to heavy cannons is effectively a cost reduction to it.

Let's do some calculation: A heavy cannon takes 115 seconds to train at the factory. This is an equivalent of ~822 ressources which could have been produced by the factory in the same time. The train time can be reduced by a factory upgrade (-25%), the standard faster artillery train cards (-10%) and the chinese team cards (-5%) to a total of -40% which yields a train time 69 seconds per unit or an equivalent cost of ~493 ressources.

In your case, you should be able to stack the team card and the factory upgrade for a total of -30% train time.

(not sure whether mass production has any effect on heavy cannon)


Thanks for this. And you are correct. I just got to try it in game and only the 25% from Mass Production and 5% percent from Team Engineering School. So Acupucture doesn't effect the heavy cannon train time which is a bit sad considering it does lower the Flying Crow from the wonder. Kinda wish China was simply able to produce the flying crow from the factory but I guess it would be OP :P.
Completely wrong. Acupuncture does affect Heavy Cannon train time but not the Flying Crows from the Confucian Academy. Please see my above post for more facts relating to your question.

You are wrong Im on the game right now. What I stated in my post above is correct. I think you should read over the Acupuncture and Team engineering Cards again.
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New Zealand zoom
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11 Jul 2018, 16:36

airgorden wrote:
zoom wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Completely wrong. Acupuncture does affect Heavy Cannon train time but not the Flying Crows from the Confucian Academy. Please see my above post for more facts relating to your question.

You are wrong Im on the game right now
Impressive, then, that you are failing to notice how Acupuncture decreases Heavy Cannon train-points from 115 to 92. Try harder.
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No Flag airgorden
Crossbow
Posts: 16

11 Jul 2018, 16:39

zoom wrote:
airgorden wrote:
Show hidden quotes

You are wrong Im on the game right now
Impressive, then, that you are failing to notice how Acupuncture decreases Heavy Cannon train-points from 115 to 92. Try harder.


Where can I see this. I tested train time before and after I sent Acupuncture card and it didn't seem to change.So what percentage train time is being reduced? 20%? So China can produce heavy cannon at a -50% train time?
Germany duckzilla
Musketeer
Posts: 84

11 Jul 2018, 16:48

Just for clarification: I mixed up the name of mass production with the chinese age III faster training card ;)
Of course the factory upgrade (which I just learned is called mass production) has an effect on heavy cannon training.

If Acupuncture decreases heavy cannon train time by 20%, it is (interestingly) the strongest card to do so in the game.
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No Flag airgorden
Crossbow
Posts: 16

11 Jul 2018, 16:49

duckzilla wrote:Just for clarification: I mixed up the name of mass production with the chinese age III faster training card ;)
Of course the factory upgrade (which I just learned is called mass production) has an effect on heavy cannon training.

If Acupuncture decreases heavy cannon train time by 20%, it is (interestingly) the strongest card to do so in the game.


I want to know where zoom is seeing the decrease in train time. Where can I see this info ?
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New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
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Location: Ramadanistan

11 Jul 2018, 16:50

airgorden wrote:
zoom wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Impressive, then, that you are failing to notice how Acupuncture decreases Heavy Cannon train-points from 115 to 92. Try harder.


Where can I see this. I tested train time before and after I sent Acupuncture card and it didn't seem to change.So what percentage train time is being reduced? 20%? So China can produce heavy cannon at a -50% train time?
You can read the description for Acupuncture. Apart from that, you can note how sending Acupuncture reduces Factory Heavy Cannon train-time from 115 to 92 in-game seconds on medium speed. Clock it before and after, if you please.

Also, I repeat:

1. TEAM Engineering School effect is -30% – not -20%.
2. Literally the only thing "Mass Production" does is decrease the base train-time of Great Bombards, Heavy Cannons and Rockets by 25%. What did you think it does?
3. Acupuncture decreases the base train-points of everything but Monks and Summer Palace & Confucian Academy units by 20%.
4. With all three effects combined, a Factory trains Heavy Cannons in half the base time (twice as fast).
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No Flag airgorden
Crossbow
Posts: 16

11 Jul 2018, 16:52

zoom wrote:
airgorden wrote:
Show hidden quotes


Where can I see this. I tested train time before and after I sent Acupuncture card and it didn't seem to change.So what percentage train time is being reduced? 20%? So China can produce heavy cannon at a -50% train time?
You can read the description for Acupuncture. Apart from that, you can note how sending Acupuncture reduces Factory Heavy Cannon train-time from 115 to 92 in-game seconds on medium speed. Clock it before and after, if you please.

Also, I repeat:

1. TEAM Engineering School effect is -30% – not -20%.
2. Literally the only thing "Mass Production" does is decrease the base train-time of Great Bombards, Heavy Cannons and Rockets by 25%. What did you think it does?
3. Acupuncture decreases the base train-points of everything but Monks and Summer Palace & Confucian Academy units by 20%.
4. With all three effects combined, a Factory trains Heavy Cannons in half the base time (twice as fast).


Team engineering is only 5% for heavy Cannon
No Flag airgorden
Crossbow
Posts: 16

11 Jul 2018, 16:54

airgorden wrote:
zoom wrote:
Show hidden quotes
You can read the description for Acupuncture. Apart from that, you can note how sending Acupuncture reduces Factory Heavy Cannon train-time from 115 to 92 in-game seconds on medium speed. Clock it before and after, if you please.

Also, I repeat:

1. TEAM Engineering School effect is -30% – not -20%.
2. Literally the only thing "Mass Production" does is decrease the base train-time of Great Bombards, Heavy Cannons and Rockets by 25%. What did you think it does?
3. Acupuncture decreases the base train-points of everything but Monks and Summer Palace & Confucian Academy units by 20%.
4. With all three effects combined, a Factory trains Heavy Cannons in half the base time (twice as fast).


Team engineering is only 5% for heavy Cannon, 30% for normal Arty
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New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
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11 Jul 2018, 17:19

Allow me to attempt helping you yet again. What is the answer to the following mathematics problem:

5+20+25?
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France Aykin Haraka
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11 Jul 2018, 20:57

garja ?
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Finland somppukunkku
Howdah
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11 Jul 2018, 21:02

zoom wrote:Allow me to attempt helping you yet again. What is the answer to the following mathematics problem:

5+20+25?

spoiler
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Image
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France [Armag] diarouga
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11 Jul 2018, 21:21

garja I think
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New Zealand zoom
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11 Jul 2018, 21:28

Definitely.
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France Aykin Haraka
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11 Jul 2018, 23:29

Yes we agree with that
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Germany duckzilla
Musketeer
Posts: 84

12 Jul 2018, 05:01

airgorden wrote:
duckzilla wrote:Just for clarification: I mixed up the name of mass production with the chinese age III faster training card ;)
Of course the factory upgrade (which I just learned is called mass production) has an effect on heavy cannon training.

If Acupuncture decreases heavy cannon train time by 20%, it is (interestingly) the strongest card to do so in the game.


I want to know where zoom is seeing the decrease in train time. Where can I see this info ?

It shows a list of Acupuncture's effects in-game. One of them is:
"Unit: Changes Train Points by -20.00%"

This should affect any single unit in the game, since I guess all of them (even settlers) have the tag "unit" given to them. It does not affect banner armies, which is why the HC card further lists decreased train time for all banner armies.
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United States of America _H2O
ESOC Business Team
Donator 06
Posts: 3196

12 Jul 2018, 11:10

Zoom can you try to be nice while answering people’s questions. This game is not very clear on what it’s doing to train times. There are training points and training % reductions and it’s not clear if they stack or only apply on the base. I don’t even know the answer to how this works and I was playing 10 years ago.

You know a lot about the game and there’s no need to make others feel dumb while you help.

This being said, zoom has spent time looking at this stuff for EP and I trust him to know how it works! Looks like the percent reductions are additive while means they apply only to the base.

5 + 20 + 25 = 50% faster base training which means they train at double speed.
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Sweden Gendarme
Jaeger
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12 Jul 2018, 11:45

Zoom is a hardcoar role player. Veri scurry sometimes.
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