Rushing / FF Civi

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Rushing / FF Civi

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Post by Grink22 »

Hey guys new to the forums here. Looking for some help to choose a great rushing or FF Civi. I’ve played British and Iroquois some but want to know what my best option(s) would be to counter all civilizations on TAD.
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by Sargsyan »

Rush them all with iro, as simple that
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

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Post by Knyron »

If you're playing on RE, Iro and Otto are your civs.

Thing is you won't make many friends that way.
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Japan: Neither of these
India: Good rushing civ (sepoy rush). You'll get a strong rush with 12 sepoys and your 2 elephants, and then transi into an eco game, with skirm/goon in age 2. Sometimes you can even age 3.
China: Great ff civ. It's hard to hold rushes as a beginner, but once you reach age 3, you have so many free units that your opponent will struggle to hold your timing.
Iro: Best rush civ on the RE, on the EP it's a bit more complicated so I wouldn't recommend it.
Aztecs: Great rush civ at low levels with a lot of mace/pikes.
Sioux: Not appropriate
Otto: Good at both rush (it can be jan rush or jan/huss), and ff (jan+falcs+mam timing).
Spain: Good ff civ. They have a scary timing with skirm/pike/2 falcs which comes very early.
Dutch: Bad at both rush and ff
France: Bad at both
Germany: Bad at both
Brit: They have okish rush builds (such as the Aklak double musk spam), but I wouldn't recommend it if you want to rush still.
Port: They have an ok ff, but it's a very eco heavy/defensive ff so it's probably not what you're looking for.
Russia: One of the scariest rush civs, they attack very early with infantry+5cossack, and then have one of the strongest map control with a great late colonial.

That's it for the civs. If you're interesting in one strat, tell me and I'll be more specific.
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by edeholland »

Grink22 wrote:Hey guys new to the forums here. Looking for some help to choose a great rushing or FF Civi. I’ve played British and Iroquois some but want to know what my best option(s) would be to counter all civilizations on TAD.


If you 1) search for one civ that works against all civs relatively well, 2) want to learn the game by not abusing an easy civ I would say French is your civ to go. And they can rush and FF I guess, but they are by far not the best at either one of them.

If you are a bit more experienced with the game, you will probably want to follow what Diarouga says in his post, but until you are PR 20-25 you can win by just being good at one civ or one strategy.

So if you could tell us something about your skill level, perhaps we can give more targeted advice.
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by Garja »

Germans are a good rush and FF civ.
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

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[Armag] diarouga wrote:Japan: Neither of these
India: Good rushing civ (sepoy rush). You'll get a strong rush with 12 sepoys and your 2 elephants, and then transi into an eco game, with skirm/goon in age 2. Sometimes you can even age 3.
China: Great ff civ. It's hard to hold rushes as a beginner, but once you reach age 3, you have so many free units that your opponent will struggle to hold your timing.
Iro: Best rush civ on the RE, on the EP it's a bit more complicated so I wouldn't recommend it.
Aztecs: Great rush civ at low levels with a lot of mace/pikes.
Sioux: Not appropriate
Otto: Good at both rush (it can be jan rush or jan/huss), and ff (jan+falcs+mam timing).
Spain: Good ff civ. They have a scary timing with skirm/pike/2 falcs which comes very early.
Dutch: Bad at both rush and ff
France: Bad at both
Germany: Bad at both
Brit: They have okish rush builds (such as the Aklak double musk spam), but I wouldn't recommend it if you want to rush still.
Port: They have an ok ff, but it's a very eco heavy/defensive ff so it's probably not what you're looking for.
Russia: One of the scariest rush civs, they attack very early with infantry+5cossack, and then have one of the strongest map control with a great late colonial.

That's it for the civs. If you're interesting in one strat, tell me and I'll be more specific.


The reason I want to switch from Iro is because it's cheesy and I know it lmao. I've been trying Ottoman and I like it a lot. I've tried the basic Jan rush and a basic FF but is there anything that's specifically good? The Otto FF is weak against the rush early on and my friend uses Aztec rush so I'm hoping to counter that.
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

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Grink22 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Japan: Neither of these
India: Good rushing civ (sepoy rush). You'll get a strong rush with 12 sepoys and your 2 elephants, and then transi into an eco game, with skirm/goon in age 2. Sometimes you can even age 3.
China: Great ff civ. It's hard to hold rushes as a beginner, but once you reach age 3, you have so many free units that your opponent will struggle to hold your timing.
Iro: Best rush civ on the RE, on the EP it's a bit more complicated so I wouldn't recommend it.
Aztecs: Great rush civ at low levels with a lot of mace/pikes.
Sioux: Not appropriate
Otto: Good at both rush (it can be jan rush or jan/huss), and ff (jan+falcs+mam timing).
Spain: Good ff civ. They have a scary timing with skirm/pike/2 falcs which comes very early.
Dutch: Bad at both rush and ff
France: Bad at both
Germany: Bad at both
Brit: They have okish rush builds (such as the Aklak double musk spam), but I wouldn't recommend it if you want to rush still.
Port: They have an ok ff, but it's a very eco heavy/defensive ff so it's probably not what you're looking for.
Russia: One of the scariest rush civs, they attack very early with infantry+5cossack, and then have one of the strongest map control with a great late colonial.

That's it for the civs. If you're interesting in one strat, tell me and I'll be more specific.


The reason I want to switch from Iro is because it's cheesy and I know it lmao. I've been trying Ottoman and I like it a lot. I've tried the basic Jan rush and a basic FF but is there anything that's specifically good? The Otto FF is weak against the rush early on and my friend uses Aztec rush so I'm hoping to counter that.

You went from like Munster cheese to Stinking Bishop cheese. Try Germany, they are like blue cheese.
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by Sargsyan »

Try france, they're like Roquefort cheese
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:Germans are a good rush and FF civ.

No. Their rush is awkward, and the Ger naked ff is bad.
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by Kaiserklein »

The ger naked ff isn't exactly bad though. It's just situational, it's the build you wanna do in some match ups.
But yeah the rush sucks
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Grink22 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Japan: Neither of these
India: Good rushing civ (sepoy rush). You'll get a strong rush with 12 sepoys and your 2 elephants, and then transi into an eco game, with skirm/goon in age 2. Sometimes you can even age 3.
China: Great ff civ. It's hard to hold rushes as a beginner, but once you reach age 3, you have so many free units that your opponent will struggle to hold your timing.
Iro: Best rush civ on the RE, on the EP it's a bit more complicated so I wouldn't recommend it.
Aztecs: Great rush civ at low levels with a lot of mace/pikes.
Sioux: Not appropriate
Otto: Good at both rush (it can be jan rush or jan/huss), and ff (jan+falcs+mam timing).
Spain: Good ff civ. They have a scary timing with skirm/pike/2 falcs which comes very early.
Dutch: Bad at both rush and ff
France: Bad at both
Germany: Bad at both
Brit: They have okish rush builds (such as the Aklak double musk spam), but I wouldn't recommend it if you want to rush still.
Port: They have an ok ff, but it's a very eco heavy/defensive ff so it's probably not what you're looking for.
Russia: One of the scariest rush civs, they attack very early with infantry+5cossack, and then have one of the strongest map control with a great late colonial.

That's it for the civs. If you're interesting in one strat, tell me and I'll be more specific.


The reason I want to switch from Iro is because it's cheesy and I know it lmao. I've been trying Ottoman and I like it a lot. I've tried the basic Jan rush and a basic FF but is there anything that's specifically good? The Otto FF is weak against the rush early on and my friend uses Aztec rush so I'm hoping to counter that.

Otto is even more cheesy than Iro actually haha.
Anyway, the Otto ff isn't weak against rushes at all. I'd say that it's actually better if you get rushed.
There are a lot of ff builds, some are more "eco" focused, some are focused. Here is the safest:

Age 1: Build a TP and a house, age with the tower+200g politician
Transi: Gather wood to build a 2nd TP, get 100c and then switch every vill on food.
Age 2: Ship 700c, build the tower at home if you think your opponent is going to rush you, and age with the 4 huss politician
Transi: Send 700w to get a rax, the vet jan upgrade, and 3 houses (you might need to put some vills on wood later to build more houses), and start spaming jans.
Age 3: Against Aztecs send 2 falcs/8jans/1000c/4-5 mams and go for a first push when the 8 jans arrive, and for a 2nd push with the jans you have left and the mams.
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Kaiserklein wrote:The ger naked ff isn't exactly bad though. It's just situational, it's the build you wanna do in some match ups.
But yeah the rush sucks

It depends on what you mean by the ger ff. I assume you mean the 3sw/700c with age 1 TP build, in which case it's a semi ff imo.
Anyway, this guy probably wants an agressive build which works every time, so Germany is not a civ for him.
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by Kaiserklein »

Well, if ff means you gotta skip 3sw, then yeah it's pretty shit. I'm talking about 3 sw 700w and 3 sw 700g with age tp indeed. First one is greedy and just works in a couple match ups, second one can actually be used in a lot of mus
But yeah, germany is usually not all in
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

To me 3SW/700w and fast age up is a semi ff.
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by Kaiserklein »

For me a naked ff means you don't train units
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by Sargsyan »

Yeah ofc naked ff means you don't train units to defend yourself. So no matter what you send 300w or team cheap priests as long as you don't make units your ff is naked
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by Sargsyan »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:To me 3SW/700w and fast age up is a semi ff.

To me earth is flat
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by stronk »

Sargsyan wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:To me 3SW/700w and fast age up is a semi ff.

To me earth is flat

ff is short for FAST fortress. Nothing said about naked. The 3sw 700 wood is probably not "fast" anymore so diarouga's statement is totaly fine.
give that guy a manual
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Sargsyan wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:To me 3SW/700w and fast age up is a semi ff.

To me earth is flat

Well of course, naked ff means by definition that you don't make any unit, but then if you stay in age 1 and make 20 manors and then age 3 without making any unit, it's a naked ff which doesn't make a lot of sense.
Strategically speaking, it would make more sense to say that a ff is 700c first, and then 700w, and that a semi ff is vill shipment/700c although you don't make units.
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by yemshi »

Sargsyan wrote:Yeah ofc naked ff means you don't train units to defend yourself. So no matter what you send 300w or team cheap priests as long as you don't make units your ff is naked

Even naked if you send more :food: ?
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by Sargsyan »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Sargsyan wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:To me 3SW/700w and fast age up is a semi ff.

To me earth is flat

Well of course, naked ff means by definition that you don't make any unit, but then if you stay in age 1 and make 20 manors and then age 3 without making any unit, it's a naked ff which doesn't make a lot of sense.
Strategically speaking, it would make more sense to say that a ff is 700c first, and then 700w, and that a semi ff is vill shipment/700c although you don't make units.

Haw can 20 manor age up be ff. Yeah sure 4v 700c is faster than 4v 700w, but still it's a naked ff if you dont make an army
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by Garja »

3sw was the standard for German naked FF. With a TP you can squeeze in 700w too. German FF (naked or not) has always been good because Germans are simply a good FF civ.
The rush is also good because Germans have free ulhans so any first unit card is going to be a lot of units. Also Germans have an easy time spamming xbows and playing the contain game.
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by Jaeger »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Japan: Neither of these
India: Good rushing civ (sepoy rush). You'll get a strong rush with 12 sepoys and your 2 elephants, and then transi into an eco game, with skirm/goon in age 2. Sometimes you can even age 3.
China: Great ff civ. It's hard to hold rushes as a beginner, but once you reach age 3, you have so many free units that your opponent will struggle to hold your timing.
Iro: Best rush civ on the RE, on the EP it's a bit more complicated so I wouldn't recommend it.
Aztecs: Great rush civ at low levels with a lot of mace/pikes.
Sioux: Not appropriate
Otto: Good at both rush (it can be jan rush or jan/huss), and ff (jan+falcs+mam timing).
Spain: Good ff civ. They have a scary timing with skirm/pike/2 falcs which comes very early.
Dutch: Bad at both rush and ff
France: Bad at both
Germany: Bad at both
Brit: They have okish rush builds (such as the Aklak double musk spam), but I wouldn't recommend it if you want to rush still.
Port: They have an ok ff, but it's a very eco heavy/defensive ff so it's probably not what you're looking for.
Russia: One of the scariest rush civs, they attack very early with infantry+5cossack, and then have one of the strongest map control with a great late colonial.

That's it for the civs. If you're interesting in one strat, tell me and I'll be more specific.

Very nice breakdown, but very new players might use the word FF for any strategy involving age 3, so it's worth to memtion that while Germany's and France's FF might not be good, they have a VERY good semi-ff.
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Re: Rushing / FF Civi

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

ovi12 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Japan: Neither of these
India: Good rushing civ (sepoy rush). You'll get a strong rush with 12 sepoys and your 2 elephants, and then transi into an eco game, with skirm/goon in age 2. Sometimes you can even age 3.
China: Great ff civ. It's hard to hold rushes as a beginner, but once you reach age 3, you have so many free units that your opponent will struggle to hold your timing.
Iro: Best rush civ on the RE, on the EP it's a bit more complicated so I wouldn't recommend it.
Aztecs: Great rush civ at low levels with a lot of mace/pikes.
Sioux: Not appropriate
Otto: Good at both rush (it can be jan rush or jan/huss), and ff (jan+falcs+mam timing).
Spain: Good ff civ. They have a scary timing with skirm/pike/2 falcs which comes very early.
Dutch: Bad at both rush and ff
France: Bad at both
Germany: Bad at both
Brit: They have okish rush builds (such as the Aklak double musk spam), but I wouldn't recommend it if you want to rush still.
Port: They have an ok ff, but it's a very eco heavy/defensive ff so it's probably not what you're looking for.
Russia: One of the scariest rush civs, they attack very early with infantry+5cossack, and then have one of the strongest map control with a great late colonial.

That's it for the civs. If you're interesting in one strat, tell me and I'll be more specific.

Very nice breakdown, but very new players might use the word FF for any strategy involving age 3, so it's worth to memtion that while Germany's and France's FF might not be good, they have a VERY good semi-ff.

Maybe. I didn't understand it like that. For me, he wanted an agressive ff (such as the otto/spain ones), but it's possible I missunderstood him.

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