Wonder build order.

No Flag DracoWolfgand
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Wonder build order.

Post by DracoWolfgand »

Hello there. So, recently, I found myself curious... As for what is usually your favourite build orders with the Asian civs, and why. I thought I would share my own, and my reasoning behind it, to see if you have any suggestions on how it could bne improved. Obviously, all of these build orders will be assuming a Supremacy game and 1v1, and I am just sharing my most-Common-Build orders: There are contexts, and maps, where different build orders would be in order, I am certain.

Chinese:

Colonial Age: Temple of Heaven.

Fortress Age: Confuncian academy

Industrial Age: Summer Palace.

Imperial Age: White Pagoda.

Neglected: Porcelain Tower.

Reasoning: The Chinese are often in a rush to get to the Fortress age, and I would say the free villagers granted by Temple of Heaven help with that( Plus, personally, maybe I am overrating its importance, but I feel unconfortable when I dont have access to some way to heal my units. ). The Confuncian Academy is also very usefull, mostly for its Fliyng Crows: The Chinese artillery options are much more limited then the ones of European Civilizations, and while Fliyng Crows dont make up for it by theirselves, they at least help.

I know some of you will probably say that it is rare for games to make it to the Industrial, let alone Imperial Age on the professional scene... But, I never said I am in the professional scene :p. Plus, I thought I would put then in here anyway just in case. Honestly, neither of these is exceptionally usefull, and you could arguably change up their order and it wouldnt make too big of a difference: However, the reason why I put "Porcelain Tower" as the neglected one is because it always stroke me like it would be usefull almost only in Treaty games, and "White Pagoda" in the Industrial age is because the extra Disciples it ships do not count, either on the Shaolin Masters build limits, nor on your-Population-Limit, so although they arent exactly powerfhouses, they can surprisingly make a difference in pitches battles... Like this one must have been, to make it to the Imperial Age.

Indians:

Colonial Age: Agra Fort.

Fortress Age: Charminar Gate

Industrial Age: Tower of Victory

Imperial Age: Tami Mata.

Neglected: Taj Mahal.

The Agra Fort should be self-intuitive there: Building it on the Colonial Age basically gives you a super cheap, early on Fort :p. The Charminar gate is the one that I imagine most of you will disagree with me own. See, originally, my logic with building it was "Yay! A free Mahout!".But I would assume most of you build it for the Mansadbar units, not for the free Mahout, so I imagine you will disagree with its placing here... As for the other two: Tower of Victory Inspiration ability is potentially very powerfull, especially in large-scale battles, which are more likely to happen late game, and the Tami Mata can provide you with a economic advantage.

Japanese:

Colonial Age: Torii Gates

Fortress Age: Golden Pavillon

Industrial Age: Toshogu Shrine.

Imperial Age: Shogunate.

Neglected: The Great Buddha.

Reasoning: The Japanese can be pretty slow on the early Colonial age when compared to other civs due to their unability to hunt. I would say the Torii Gates gives the Japanese more potential for early Colonial Age agression, then, well... Any, other wonder. Similarly, a lot of players like to play a lot of light cavalry on the Fortress Age, I notice, which is why I usually think that is a good age to build the Golden Pavillon, as Yumi Archers are particularly usefull against those units. I think some might disagree with my choice of waiting-This-Much to build the Toshogu Shrine, but... Honestly, I find the Torii Gate is just more usefull on the Colonial Age, personally, and the Toshogu Shrine can still be helpfull even built very late, due to its ability to help your other shrones. The Shogunate... Well, I dont like the Shogun as a-Unit-That much, but the Shogunate own special bonus can, again, really help on pitched battles.
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Sweden Gendarme
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by Gendarme »

nepuvir sb gVGeG
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by supahons »

Gendarme wrote:The Porcelain Tower is the same tower always,

yes, it doesn't change, but the time when you build it matters: https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Porcelain_Tower

II III IV V
Food 3.0/s 4.50/s 6.0/s 6.50/s
Wood 2.50/s 4.0/s 5.50/s 6.0/s
Coin 2.50/s 4.0/s 5.50/s 6.0/s
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by Gendarme »

nepuvir sb gVGeG
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by supahons »

The trickle rate doesn't increase anymore once you've build it.
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by Gendarme »

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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by scarm »

Why would Porcelain tower only be strong in treaty? From what i've seen it seems to be the goto wonder for age 3, since 4 wood/s equates to roughly 8 Villagers per second. And due to its high HP its really not easy to take down, if your opponent has enough time to siege it down uncontested the game is lost anyways i guess. Plus eurocivs also seem to be very inclined to ship factories once they reach age 4, and they are basically the same thing (except shadowteched heavy artillery).

edit: and oh yeah Temple of heavens ability sucks, idk in which situations the vills are usefull in sup, but in treaty you basically only build it for vill overpop.
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by Gendarme »

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No Flag DracoWolfgand
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by DracoWolfgand »

Gendarme wrote:Imagine getting 8 villagers per second :love:


Well, the main downside is that you probably wouldnt be able to make anything BUT villagers. Then again, that could make for a intersting villager rush on the Discovery Age :p
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by TNT333 »

In a 4v4 supremacy
China
1. Porcelain tower
2. Confucian academy
3.tower of heaven
4. Summerpalace

India
1. Agra fort
2. Karna meta
3. Taj mahal
4.tower of victory

Japan
1. Golden pavilion
2. Shogunate
3. Shrine
4. Buddha
"We are kings or pawns" Napoleon Bonaparte
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by Gendarme »

nepuvir sb gVGeG
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by TNT333 »

supahons wrote:The trickle rate doesn't increase anymore once you've build it.

Combine taht with a factory frm consulate is a LOT
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by supahons »

@DracoWolfgand
You change the wonder order, when you have to adapt to a certain situation. All have their own unique purpose in supremacy.

for example:
* Porcelain Tower: viewtopic.php?t=928, viewtopic.php?f=29&t=12276 both H2O+ Mitoe use it in their build
* Taj Mahal: 1500 coin when you age to IV, really usefull sometimes, + Ceasefire
* Buddha: If your opponent decides to play hide and seek
* economic build: Karni Mata first (10% boost), Toshugu Shrine first (Shrine boost), ~Summerpalace first (versatility, higher bonuses later with the other wonders)
.....
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by momuuu »

I think it should be:

China: Summer palace (500 food is great and it's free units are quite nice), Porcelain Tower/Confucian Academy (Porcelain tower is worht 8! vills, confucian academy gives skirms for a rush and the flying crows are not bad in age 3 but not great either), then Confucian Academy/Porcelain Tower/Temple of Heaven depending on what you build. Confucian Academy gives a bunch of skirms that might allow you to actually survive going age 4, and the flying crows are really strong in age 4. Temple of Heaven gives you 10 villagers which is great but the Porcelain tower is still stronger than it and you will probably max out vills soon so if you didn't build the porcelain tower to age 3 you should age with the porcelain tower to age 4. To age 5 I think it's usually Temple of Heaven, because it gives 20 vills on top of your 99 vills, giving you a 119 vill economy. If you used temple of heaven to age 4, you should probably go for the White Pagoda as it's better in the lategame than the Confucian academy.

India: Agra fort or Karni mata to age 2. Tower of Victory of Charminar gate to age 3 (Tower of victory gives a lot of wood which is nice for india and I think I prefer that, although mansabar units are great). Charminar Gate, Tower of Victory or Karni mata to age 4, it kinda depends. If you fully transitioned to rice paddies already and the game has slowed down, Karni mata is nice. Otherwise, the other two are better. To age 5 whatever wonder is left over that isn't the agra fort. So if you aged to age 2 with Karni you are getting the Taj Mahal here, otherwise you get Gate/Tower/Taj Mahal.

Japan: Toshugo Shrine to age 2 (it's the best wonder that also gives great age up boosts), Golden Pavilion to age 3 (it's just too good), Shogunate to age 4 (the xp boost and unit cost reduction are awesome), Torii gates to age 5 imo (the xp boost is better than the Buddha ability I think).
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by DracoWolfgand »

@momuuu I certainly see your logic there, and there are certainly circunstances where that could be a good idea... With that said, I can think of few circunstances where I would want Torii Gates as my Age V wonder. Most of the important shipments I would want to send I probably already did by this point, not to mention how, if the opponents gets to research Blockade... Yeeeeah. I think that, if you havent built it so far, Buddha may be better
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by Mitoe »

The Summer Palace for China is just better than any other wonder you can construct in Colonial. It's already worth 5 villagers on its own (better than Temple of Heaven or Porcelain Tower) with the raw resource value you get out of the free banner armies (plus you don't need a military building, which is sometimes very hard to get before you hit Fortress if you're under any pressure), and you get 400f towards your age up on top if it. Not to mention that its size means you can shield a large portion of your base from early aggression.

That being said wonder progressions for India and Japan are fine, although you might find other wonders better in different situations.
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by scarm »

@Mitoe Noob question here: in age 2 you set summer palace to old-han right? what do you produce in age 3? Skirm+Changdao?
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by DracoWolfgand »

scarm wrote:@Mitoe Noob question here: in age 2 you set summer palace to old-han right? what do you produce in age 3? Skirm+Changdao?


There really isnt much of a right awnser to it, though personally, when in doubt, I would prefer to set the Summer Palace, if I am building it at age 2, to the Standart Army. Mostly because the Steppe Rider actually remains kind of relevant after the Fortress Age
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by edeholland »

Steppe Riders are pretty much one of the most useless units for me. Their attack and hp is crap. Only thing they have above average is siege attack, but you aren't really going to take down buildings by rushing with cav.
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by deleted_user0 »

Theyre still cav tho, and in some mus you can just leave it on steppe (i usually do this vs brits). Vs germany, and some other cav start civs, i would go for pike&cav archer instead of pike&bow

Age3 should always be territorial (skir&changdao) unless you go for fi and old han
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by Mitoe »

DracoWolfgand wrote:
scarm wrote:@Mitoe Noob question here: in age 2 you set summer palace to old-han right? what do you produce in age 3? Skirm+Changdao?


There really isnt much of a right awnser to it, though personally, when in doubt, I would prefer to set the Summer Palace, if I am building it at age 2, to the Standart Army. Mostly because the Steppe Rider actually remains kind of relevant after the Fortress Age

Basically what Umeu said. Old Han is good if you suspect someone will do a cav semi, as those 3 pikes + 4 irregulars can be enough to deter cavalry from raiding a bit while you age. You won't get it before they can raid you though, so it's not going to help too much. While Steppe Riders are not the best units in the game, 2 Steppes can still kill a vill or two, which is often more than you'll get out of 3 pikemen, especially at that early stage in the Fortress Age.

It's mostly just personal preference. The only one I wouldn't go for is the Ming Army (3 Keshiks + 2 Pikes), unless you're doing some weird semi-FF with Ming/Old Han, as 3 Keshiks by themself without any other ranged cav or upgrades are kinda just worthless.
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by scarm »

Thank you for your answers guys :)
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Re: Wonder build order.

Post by deleted_user0 »

Mitoe wrote:
DracoWolfgand wrote:
scarm wrote:@Mitoe Noob question here: in age 2 you set summer palace to old-han right? what do you produce in age 3? Skirm+Changdao?


There really isnt much of a right awnser to it, though personally, when in doubt, I would prefer to set the Summer Palace, if I am building it at age 2, to the Standart Army. Mostly because the Steppe Rider actually remains kind of relevant after the Fortress Age

Basically what Umeu said. Old Han is good if you suspect someone will do a cav semi, as those 3 pikes + 4 irregulars can be enough to deter cavalry from raiding a bit while you age. You won't get it before they can raid you though, so it's not going to help too much. While Steppe Riders are not the best units in the game, 2 Steppes can still kill a vill or two, which is often more than you'll get out of 3 pikemen, especially at that early stage in the Fortress Age.

It's mostly just personal preference. The only one I wouldn't go for is the Ming Army (3 Keshiks + 2 Pikes), unless you're doing some weird semi-FF with Ming/Old Han, as 3 Keshiks by themself without any other ranged cav or upgrades are kinda just worthless.


i would go ming army vs ger semi ff, as the keshiks do fine vs uhlans and the ckn are useless vs cav semi's.

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