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Finland somppukunkku
Jaeger
Donator 02
Posts: 2148

12 Nov 2018, 17:47

-Remove all warships
-Advanced docks +300% attack, 50 range, can now attack docks, 2x multiplier on fish boats

How about this to stop water laming?
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When I win, it's with homo, illegal and wrong strats.
Vietnam Hazza54321
Gendarme
Donator 01
Posts: 5533

12 Nov 2018, 17:56

attacking units is partly the reason the train them
VeniVidiVici_W: lol bwinner, i dont need anyone to carry me to win vs you with your noobplay
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7027
ESO: Garja

12 Nov 2018, 18:33

70 range doesn't reach much to be fair. But I admit it is mostly an idea for balance coherence. And in the end all the problem with monitors is because they can attack other units, especially cannons. None would complain with monitors doing the only thing they're supposed to which is killing buildings. At least could consider the special attack only. Normal attack does shit anyway vs land units and it has a reasonable range (basically it means you use monitors to defend from and not to attack other units).
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New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 7913
ESO: Funnu
Location: Ramadanistan

12 Nov 2018, 22:56

somppukunkku wrote:-Remove all warships
-Advanced docks +300% attack, 50 range, can now attack docks, 2x multiplier on fish boats

How about this to stop water laming?
EP buffed Advanced Docks too much, IMO.
"I don't need this wood." – Mr Woods, 2020
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Singapore Thrar
ESOC Dev Team
Posts: 54
ESO: Thrar

05 Jan 2019, 08:01

Is there a developer guide somewhere that describes how EP is developed, in terms of UI changes, implementing balance, updating map scripts etc?
I'd be interested to know what technologies and environments are needed to perhaps fiddle with a thing or two.
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Kiribati SirCallen
Gendarme
Posts: 7311
ESO: KTRAlN
Location: Midwest best west

05 Jan 2019, 08:13

Thrar wrote:Is there a developer guide somewhere that describes how EP is developed, in terms of UI changes, implementing balance, updating map scripts etc?
I'd be interested to know what technologies and environments are needed to perhaps fiddle with a thing or two.

no
and the giving famishes the craving
sweet thames, run softly, til I end my song

The shepherd's staff's tantalus around my neck

let the water
touch the tongue
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Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 9671
ESO: Pezet
Location: Poland

05 Jan 2019, 12:59

@EAGLEMUT is The Guide
I drive all the time
It's no big deal
Open the door
And get behind the wheel :smile:
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Singapore Thrar
ESOC Dev Team
Posts: 54
ESO: Thrar

06 Jan 2019, 00:52

@EAGLEMUT what would be the best way to find out more about EP development and possibly get involved at some point? Or is that more like a restricted internal project without access for outsiders?
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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
ESOC Dev Team
Donator 05
Posts: 3260
ESO: EAGLEMUT
Location: [WPact]

06 Jan 2019, 19:49

Hey @Thrar, we're always looking for more contributors, since one can never have enough devs ;)

The EP project is maintained in a private Gitlab repository, utilizing the Git versioning system to keep track of all changes. The project has many moving parts and several quite different areas of development that require a bit different skills. I'm not sure how much you're familiar with modding AoE3 in general, but UI/balance changes typically consist of editing the game's XML data definitions, while map scripts are written in the XS (C-like) programming language.

Here's a little summary of the different things one could focus on to help out with EP development:

C# EP dev
- development of EP Launcher interface and features, EP anti-cheat
- expect VS2017 coding environment

C++/Assembly EP dev
- development of ESO hooks, security measures
- implement new game engine syscalls
- participate in UHC development to unhardcode new game functionalities
- expect VS2017 coding environment

EP Game dev
- work on modding the game itself
- expect bugfixing, implementing balance changes
- expect using Notepad++ or just a text editor of choice

RMS dev
- work on Random Map Scripts
- expect bugfixing/balancing/designing of maps
- expect using Notepad++ or just a text editor of choice

Let me know what should I get more detail into or whether you're interested in helping with any of that. We've also got other stuff unrelated/loosely related to EP that I didn't list - such as this very website, Java backend webservices, Node JS for operating our Discord bot, some things written in Python... There's really a lot of variety and opportunity to work on all kinds of interesting technologies as an ESOC developer :ugeek:
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Singapore Thrar
ESOC Dev Team
Posts: 54
ESO: Thrar

07 Jan 2019, 07:28

Thank you, that sounds good.

I was a Java developer for many years and have done a few smaller projects in C# and C++, so I imagine with a bit of practice I'd be able to understand the coding parts. I haven't done any AoE3 modding, only a bit of XML-based Civ4 modding many years ago. I'm only a PR 20 scrub anyway, so I don't think I have the background to work on balance changes in that regard.

Can you add me on Gitlab, @thrarxx ? Do you have any suggestion what I could take a look at?
Germany Egoist
Crossbow
Posts: 3

07 Jan 2019, 09:51

I only played against AI a bit after having taken some years off. I like the new maps, not so much the balance changes. A lot of cards have been overnerfed. Here's some suggestions on everything that bothered me:
- 4 Mamelukes seems too weak now, reduce the gold cost somewhat to 900g maybe
- schooners is not worth it now (vs 3 settlers). Dock riksha shipment is now OP. Imo standard boats should cost 80w, schooner boats 40w and dock riksha boats 65w. The latter can quickly become OP, esp with the Indian woodcutter bonus and the fact that they don't have to collect 200w first to build a dock.
- reduce the cost for team 4 urumi slightly by 100f or so
- reduce Silk Road effect to 20%. it will still be very playable.
- make the Abus +2 range update for Guard Abus instead.
- increase to Ottoman faster settler production cost to 100w/200w/400w. Currently it is too cheap.
- the sioux 4/5 settler not being the same card is annoying but I guess there is no better way of doing it. The teepee stuff seems OP. Now they can boom and it's impossible to take out their home base. How does the teepee effect work btw, does it stack?

- Spanish Gold is an awkward card. Sending it first feels weak and later it has lost a lot of it's effect. Good effort though
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Finland somppukunkku
Jaeger
Donator 02
Posts: 2148

09 Jan 2019, 18:23

What do you guys think if you couldn't revive your explorer while you are dancing it back?

It is so silly when 9/10 danced and you revive it accidently and I don't think it was planned to happen.
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When I win, it's with homo, illegal and wrong strats.
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
EWT - PlayoffNWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 6653
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

09 Jan 2019, 18:31

Well you gotta pay attention, either don't dance for it if you know you'll get it back manually, or don't revive it if you're dancing for it.
Micro tricks

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

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France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 8306
Location: France

09 Jan 2019, 18:36

#touchepasamonpatch
"dia abused the explorer really well I'm impressed"
Bran6new
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
ESO: Jerom_

09 Jan 2019, 19:59

#jesuisEP
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Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 9671
ESO: Pezet
Location: Poland

09 Jan 2019, 20:01

#JesusisEP
I drive all the time
It's no big deal
Open the door
And get behind the wheel :smile:
Germany Egoist
Crossbow
Posts: 3

11 Jan 2019, 12:27

Some more ideas:
- change German "3SW + 2 uhlans" card to "3SWs + 1 uhlan"
- make Wallenstein's contract cost 2000g instead of 4000g basically just removing the need to ship "cheaper mercenaries" card. Kind of durdly suggestion and more of a modding thing not balance related
- reduce Indian wood trickle to 2.1w/sec instead of 2.35w/sec to weaken their economy slightly
- make "professional handlers" card reduce elephant population by 2 instead of 1. Careful about the explorers which are at 1 pop already. Not sure if good idea though. The card is pretty much useless right now.
- remove the sioux buffs, give them a bison dance instead. Their economy is already not as bad as people make it out to be. They save 2000w on houses and have these buffalo shipments which let them gather food fast and safely. Plus raiding is kind of like boosting your own economy.

also
- nerf protuguese on water maps
- nerf shrine gathering rate and ashigaru stats.
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Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 9671
ESO: Pezet
Location: Poland

11 Jan 2019, 15:03

how would you nerf Ports on water maps? isn't water nerfed enough already?
I drive all the time
It's no big deal
Open the door
And get behind the wheel :smile:
Vietnam Hazza54321
Gendarme
Donator 01
Posts: 5533

11 Jan 2019, 19:11

why nerf port water lol
VeniVidiVici_W: lol bwinner, i dont need anyone to carry me to win vs you with your noobplay
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France Kao
ESOC Dev Team
Posts: 54
ESO: filoual

12 Jan 2019, 12:15

EAGLEMUT wrote:Hey @Thrar, we're always looking for more contributors, since one can never have enough devs ;)

The EP project is maintained in a private Gitlab repository, utilizing the Git versioning system to keep track of all changes. The project has many moving parts and several quite different areas of development that require a bit different skills. I'm not sure how much you're familiar with modding AoE3 in general, but UI/balance changes typically consist of editing the game's XML data definitions, while map scripts are written in the XS (C-like) programming language.

Here's a little summary of the different things one could focus on to help out with EP development:

C# EP dev
- development of EP Launcher interface and features, EP anti-cheat
- expect VS2017 coding environment

C++/Assembly EP dev
- development of ESO hooks, security measures
- implement new game engine syscalls
- participate in UHC development to unhardcode new game functionalities
- expect VS2017 coding environment

EP Game dev
- work on modding the game itself
- expect bugfixing, implementing balance changes
- expect using Notepad++ or just a text editor of choice

RMS dev
- work on Random Map Scripts
- expect bugfixing/balancing/designing of maps
- expect using Notepad++ or just a text editor of choice

Let me know what should I get more detail into or whether you're interested in helping with any of that. We've also got other stuff unrelated/loosely related to EP that I didn't list - such as this very website, Java backend webservices, Node JS for operating our Discord bot, some things written in Python... There's really a lot of variety and opportunity to work on all kinds of interesting technologies as an ESOC developer :ugeek:

Yeah Java backend :hmm: If you're good with Java I want you right now :hehe:


Back to the patch itself :
I've always found sad that Ottomans do not have an infinite Spahis cards while Indians have one for Urumis. Don't think it would be game breaking to add one, and definitely thinking it would be worth a try.
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France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 8306
Location: France

12 Jan 2019, 12:47

Spahis are kinda bad when you have a lot of units tbh.
"dia abused the explorer really well I'm impressed"
Bran6new
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Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 9671
ESO: Pezet
Location: Poland

12 Jan 2019, 13:01

when you have a lot of units, your opponent is likely to have a lot of units, too, which means that Spahis' splash damage could come in handy :hmm:
I drive all the time
It's no big deal
Open the door
And get behind the wheel :smile:
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New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 7913
ESO: Funnu
Location: Ramadanistan

12 Jan 2019, 14:11

Thrar wrote:@EAGLEMUT what would be the best way to find out more about EP development and possibly get involved at some point? Or is that more like a restricted internal project without access for outsiders?
Asking Eaglemut would be the best way. He's the one best suited to answering, as well as determining whether you'll be able to help out the project.

By necessity, patch development isn't completely public. Even were everyone both capable and constructive, it were impractical. Community feedback dominates the entire project, however.
"I don't need this wood." – Mr Woods, 2020
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New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 7913
ESO: Funnu
Location: Ramadanistan

12 Jan 2019, 15:34

Egoist wrote:I only played against AI a bit after having taken some years off. I like the new maps, not so much the balance changes. A lot of cards have been overnerfed. Here's some suggestions on everything that bothered me:
- 4 Mamelukes seems too weak now, reduce the gold cost somewhat to 900g maybe
- schooners is not worth it now (vs 3 settlers). Dock riksha shipment is now OP. Imo standard boats should cost 80w, schooner boats 40w and dock riksha boats 65w. The latter can quickly become OP, esp with the Indian woodcutter bonus and the fact that they don't have to collect 200w first to build a dock.
- reduce the cost for team 4 urumi slightly by 100f or so
- reduce Silk Road effect to 20%. it will still be very playable.
- make the Abus +2 range update for Guard Abus instead.
- increase to Ottoman faster settler production cost to 100w/200w/400w. Currently it is too cheap.
- the sioux 4/5 settler not being the same card is annoying but I guess there is no better way of doing it. The teepee stuff seems OP. Now they can boom and it's impossible to take out their home base. How does the teepee effect work btw, does it stack?

- Spanish Gold is an awkward card. Sending it first feels weak and later it has lost a lot of it's effect. Good effort though
Thanks for your thoughts. Some of mine:

4 Mamelukes seems fine, looking at competitive play.
Schooners seems worth it if you build more than one dock, again looking at competitive play.
Personally I agree with buffing TEAM 4 Urumi food cost, but many don't, and I don't think it's significant enough to warrant a change, either way. The card sees plenty of use, still.
Silk Road has not been sent a single time in the history of the patch, so I'm sceptical towards nerfing the shipment, at this time.
Abus Gun scaling might get changed in EP7.
Teepee effects all unavoidably stack.
Spanish Gold is intended to be situational. In the long run, let's see whether it warrants a buff.
"I don't need this wood." – Mr Woods, 2020
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7027
ESO: Garja

12 Jan 2019, 16:42

I could agree with all thoe points but at the same time could agree also that it is fine as it is now (well maybe except schooners/dock rickshaw/standard fishing boats which is admittedly a bit off atm).
Tweaking nunmbers generally isn't that controversial. The problem with the patch is more when it changes some mechanics of the game or tweaks numbers too much. In that sense Spanish Gold is actually more controversial, and so is silk road card being not team anymore.

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