am i just getting out-microed here

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United States of America Squamiger
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

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Post by Squamiger »

holy shit look at greatscythe's games played log: https://eso-community.net/ladder.php?pa ... atscythe11

60+ pages of games, only ever as GERMANY ON RETAIL GREAT PLAINS. this is like in The Shining when the wife discovers Jack Nicholson has just been typing " All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" over and over for hundreds of pages.

i feel like we need to stage an intervention
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

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Post by Frost Bite »

haha this guy is sooo ...
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Frost Bite wrote:haha this guy is sooo ...

That's some real Germany here.
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

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Post by rsy »

Frost Bite wrote:haha this guy is sooo ...

He's actually a really nice guy. I've played with him on ep maps before. Maybe if u tried being nice to him

And I don't get what the deal is here. Many people restart games 2 mins in for far off hunts too and he went for the re at the first second saving ur time. Don't u want a fair game anyway?
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by tedere12 »

he is nice ye. I've played a lot of games with him on gameranger and eso.
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

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Post by Kaiserklein »

rsy wrote:And I don't get what the deal is here. Many people restart games 2 mins in for far off hunts too and he went for the re at the first second saving ur time. Don't u want a fair game anyway?

Sure, then if both players do that, you spend your time rehosting because it's GP and 90% of the time one player is gonna have shit hunts, or mines too far, or missing a mine, or whatever...
Even in the most advanced tourney rounds, we don't rehost because the mines are a bit in front lol.
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by rsy »

Kaiserklein wrote:
rsy wrote:And I don't get what the deal is here. Many people restart games 2 mins in for far off hunts too and he went for the re at the first second saving ur time. Don't u want a fair game anyway?

Sure, then if both players do that, you spend your time rehosting because it's GP and 90% of the time one player is gonna have shit hunts, or mines too far, or missing a mine, or whatever...
Even in the most advanced tourney rounds, we don't rehost because the mines are a bit in front lol.

Yeah fair enough
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by Squamiger »

damn, i just played that match up again and i swear i can't win the fight. its the same fight every time and i just cant win it. granted, this game didnt go great because i shipped 300w trying to snag the second tp and he got it first, so I sort of wasted a shipment. But this time, it felt like i had good positioning against his cav with my changdaos, problem is, his dopps are right next to his uhlans and he just wrecks my changdao and then its GG bc uhlans are on my skirms. Dop + uhlan feels almost impossible for china to counter at that point in the game.
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[RE SP] Greatscythe11[GE] vs Squamiger[CH] - Great Plains.age3yrec
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Great Plains
Great Plains
Rules: Supremacy (1v1)
Version: Official Patch (Legacy)
Length: 15 minutes
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by Djigit »

Squamiger wrote:damn, i just played that match up again and i swear i can't win the fight. its the same fight every time and i just cant win it. granted, this game didnt go great because i shipped 300w trying to snag the second tp and he got it first, so I sort of wasted a shipment. But this time, it felt like i had good positioning against his cav with my changdaos, problem is, his dopps are right next to his uhlans and he just wrecks my changdao and then its GG bc uhlans are on my skirms. Dop + uhlan feels almost impossible for china to counter at that point in the game.
Send 10 arquebusiers or 4 iron flail as a first shipment in Age3. 5 meteor wasn't the wisest choice here, but would be optimal against civs that have early canons.

Then what's the point of playing China if you don't use its best shipment and the consulate potential? Send Intervention with the British consulate + spend your 400 export for 6 additional redcoats. You'll get 15 guard-level units and that could be your first timing! Don't send 300w or else it delays Intervention.
Plus you didn't switch to Brit once you built the consulate and therefore you didn't take advantage of the 10% hp bonus for land units.
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by I_HaRRiiSoN_I »

Djigit wrote:
Squamiger wrote:damn, i just played that match up again and i swear i can't win the fight. its the same fight every time and i just cant win it. granted, this game didnt go great because i shipped 300w trying to snag the second tp and he got it first, so I sort of wasted a shipment. But this time, it felt like i had good positioning against his cav with my changdaos, problem is, his dopps are right next to his uhlans and he just wrecks my changdao and then its GG bc uhlans are on my skirms. Dop + uhlan feels almost impossible for china to counter at that point in the game.
Send 10 arquebusiers or 4 iron flail as a first shipment in Age3. 5 meteor wasn't the wisest choice here, but would be optimal against civs that have early canons.

Then what's the point of playing China if you don't use its best shipment and the consulate potential? Send Intervention with the British consulate + spend your 400 export for 6 additional redcoats. You'll get 15 guard-level units and that could be your first timing! Don't send 300w or else it delays Intervention.
Plus you didn't switch to Brit once you built the consulate and therefore you didn't take advantage of the 10% hp bonus for land units.


Remember consulate units are only 10% better than standard units so brit 'Redcoat' in age 3 would vet Musk +10% stats (+10% HP from Consulate passive bonus). Saying that they are guard units is definitely over estimating them
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by Lukas_L99 »

I’m gonna watch the game later maybe.
Btw 4 fails is a bad shipment.
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by Mitoe »

5 Meteor Hammers is one of the best cavalry shipments in the game, 4 Iron Flails is below average.
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by Djigit »

Mitoe wrote:5 Meteor Hammers is one of the best cavalry shipments in the game, 4 Iron Flails is below average.
Aren't iron flails better in this case, where the German player has uhlans, skirms and some dopps?
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Djigit wrote:
Mitoe wrote:5 Meteor Hammers is one of the best cavalry shipments in the game, 4 Iron Flails is below average.
Aren't iron flails better in this case, where the German player has uhlans, skirms and some dopps?


Why would they be? Less dmg, range and fewer units.
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Squamiger wrote:holy shit look at greatscythe's games played log: https://eso-community.net/ladder.php?pa ... atscythe11

60+ pages of games, only ever as GERMANY ON RETAIL GREAT PLAINS. this is like in The Shining when the wife discovers Jack Nicholson has just been typing " All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" over and over for hundreds of pages.

i feel like we need to stage an intervention

http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... pid=158825

This guy used to be my quicksearch nemesis. No matter when I queued, he was always queuing with Ottomans on nilla. The guy has 1300+ pages of nilla qs games with otto. That's pure dedication to one's craft.
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by Djigit »

Lukas_L99 wrote:
Djigit wrote:
Mitoe wrote:5 Meteor Hammers is one of the best cavalry shipments in the game, 4 Iron Flails is below average.
Aren't iron flails better in this case, where the German player has uhlans, skirms and some dopps?


Why would they be? Less dmg, range and fewer units.
True, but I feel having more HP and area effect can be a decisive factor too. They deal about the same damage vs. infantry and perhaps the -1 handicap can be compensated by the area effect. What do you think?
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Djigit wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:
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Why would they be? Less dmg, range and fewer units.
True, but I feel having more HP and area effect can be a decisive factor too. They deal about the same damage vs. infantry and perhaps the -1 handicap can be compensated by the area effect. What do you think?


They deal less dmg vs skirms even with the bonus and will fight dopp/uhlan most of the time. And 1 splash isnt enough to compensate for the much lower dmg.
Trust me, 4 fails are bad!
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

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Post by Mitoe »

Djigit wrote:
Mitoe wrote:5 Meteor Hammers is one of the best cavalry shipments in the game, 4 Iron Flails is below average.
Aren't iron flails better in this case, where the German player has uhlans, skirms and some dopps?

As Lukas says, there's little reason why they would be.

5 Meteor Hammers:
1300 Hitpoints
30% Ranged Resistance
170 Attack, 5 Range (2x vs Artillery)

4 Iron Flails:
1400 Hitpoints
30% Ranged Resistance
88 Attack, 1 Area (1.5x vs Infantry, 0.75x vs Heavy Infantry)


And just for fun (although this card is SLIGHTLY underrated):
10 Steppe Riders
1500 Hitpoints
30% Ranged Resistance
150 Attack (2x vs Infantry, 0.5x vs Heavy Infantry)


5 Meteor Hammers just has much more damage output than 4 Iron Flails, even accounting for multipliers and area damage (1 area is pretty bad, 2 area is kind of where it becomes relevant), and have 5 attack range on top of it. Even 10 Steppe Riders is arguably a better shipment, unless you have a large mass of cavalry already where them bunching up and blocking each other and other units becomes a problem.

If I were to create a list of cards that are most likely to outright win you the game upon arrival, 5 Meteors is definitely up there for the non-mercenary shipments.
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by Djigit »

@Mitoe Wow the 10 Steppe Riders comparison really put things into perspective.
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by Kaiserklein »

Yeah meteor hammers are just insane, the range is huge. I think if china could train pure meteor instead of mixing in iron flails, they would be top civ
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by Squamiger »

Djigit wrote:
Squamiger wrote:damn, i just played that match up again and i swear i can't win the fight. its the same fight every time and i just cant win it. granted, this game didnt go great because i shipped 300w trying to snag the second tp and he got it first, so I sort of wasted a shipment. But this time, it felt like i had good positioning against his cav with my changdaos, problem is, his dopps are right next to his uhlans and he just wrecks my changdao and then its GG bc uhlans are on my skirms. Dop + uhlan feels almost impossible for china to counter at that point in the game.
Send 10 arquebusiers or 4 iron flail as a first shipment in Age3. 5 meteor wasn't the wisest choice here, but would be optimal against civs that have early canons.

Then what's the point of playing China if you don't use its best shipment and the consulate potential? Send Intervention with the British consulate + spend your 400 export for 6 additional redcoats. You'll get 15 guard-level units and that could be your first timing! Don't send 300w or else it delays Intervention.
Plus you didn't switch to Brit once you built the consulate and therefore you didn't take advantage of the 10% hp bonus for land units.


yea that was another mistake i know, I delayed my Brit consulate and didn't have it when I first pushed his base. Was tired last night. But I'm pretty sure I had it by the time of the deciding fight.

But sending intervention just feels like it would get cleaned by those skirms too easily; I need hard counters. And also, I know that I'm just probably not as technically proficient as this guy, and this match up might not be in my favor given the strat he's doing. I could probably win more easily if I went France or something. I just have become obsessed with beating him on GP with my China. I just feel like dops + uhlans is incredibly tough for China to beat because dopps just clean up changdaos so hard.
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by dansil92 »

Technically could you not get dopps from the german consulte instead of Redcoats?
Vs germany i usually spam a lot of cav and let meteor hammers deal with the dopps and uhlans with redcoats and arq behind them. As long as a handful of flails can tank long enough to drop the majority of the dopps you should be just fine to counter uhlans, which are quite fragile to the mass of meteors and redcoat. I dont know how likely it is for you to pull it off but getting the manchu shipment in asap can be extremely powerful vs the mass of uhlans amd make it hard for germany to remass
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by Lukas_L99 »

So today I went on ESO but nobody really was online, except for that guy. So I thought why not play China vs him.

I went for the 300 Export build, stacked coin for Manchus just before he attacked (so in theory I could have had even more units out). I still won the fight convincingly. Maybe you can watch and deal with it better the next time. Mainly just positioning and pulling back the cav so they dont get rekt by dopps.

Note: I could've gotten even more mass earlier if I got those 2 big XP terasures near my base, but that wouldve skewed the game.
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[RE SP] Greatscythe11[GE] vs General_Darkrar[CH] - Great Plains.age3yrec
(483.29 KiB) Downloaded 85 times
Great Plains
Great Plains
Rules: Supremacy (1v1)
Version: Official Patch (Legacy)
Length: 15 minutes
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by Hazza54321 »

If your micro is good enough you could kite so many units with hand cav :DDD
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Re: am i just getting out-microed here

Post by Squamiger »

Lukas_L99 wrote:So today I went on ESO but nobody really was online, except for that guy. So I thought why not play China vs him.

I went for the 300 Export build, stacked coin for Manchus just before he attacked (so in theory I could have had even more units out). I still won the fight convincingly. Maybe you can watch and deal with it better the next time. Mainly just positioning and pulling back the cav so they dont get rekt by dopps.

Note: I could've gotten even more mass earlier if I got those 2 big XP terasures near my base, but that wouldve skewed the game.


thanks! ill watch it when im done with work today.

Hazza54321 wrote:If your micro is good enough you could kite so many units with hand cav :DDD


haha fat chance.

Maybe I'll make a stream, called "Squamiger Attempts to Beat Greatscythe" and just play him every night.

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