Australia Peachrocks
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ESO: Peachrocks

13 Aug 2019, 18:18

Kaiserklein wrote:
Peachrocks wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
The comanche nat is crap, but if we start buffing that, we might as well buff half the nats and also rework the mercs.


That’s the plan. Seriously the posts are usually map decorations. I’m making threads on one native group at a time starting with the ones that I dislike seeing because the units are completely unusable.

I don't think we want to buff all this stuff though. There's so many shitty units in this game, buffing all of them would take lots of efforts and is also risky to some extent. And then why not make all cards viable too? It's just endless.

Also like I said comanche settlements are already viable, so let's be happy about it.


Well yeah. I mean you haven’t read all my threads but I’ve questioned many times whether the community actually wants this. A lot of people seem pretty damn content with the robotic nature of the game.

Honestly though currently Comanche only get picked up if the game goes beyond the usual averages. You never see people pick or not pick a given civ because Comanche is on the map or any native for that matter. They are basically invisible in 99% of games,

I’m looking to expand and diversify the game and keep it fresh, without destabilising balance. That’s what games do these days after all.

Also quite frankly with the TP meta, we’ve already got a few ‘must have’ things and something on a map worth contending to the point where there is great imbalance on no TP maps vs. TP maps. Natives just might be an alternative route to no tp maps for TP dependant civs and some passive benefits to natives as a whole could be considered.

Even if I 100% had my way I’m not actually sure people will use the natives but the first step is making them remotely worth considering.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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13 Aug 2019, 18:32

If you pick a civ on a map because of Comanche, then you break the balance
Australia Peachrocks
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ESO: Peachrocks

13 Aug 2019, 18:47

[Armag] diarouga wrote:If you pick a civ on a map because of Comanche, then you break the balance


Or maybe the meta evolves. In any case even if I got my way I doubt this will happen. They are limited in number, in inconvenient places and other such things. Not to mention that considering there’s a whole other tier list on whether the map has a trade route or not... well.

Ugh. I think it’s time to do a poll. I’m tired of arguing with you in every thread about this when your bias is clear.
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France Kaiserklein
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13 Aug 2019, 19:12

Well I think your vision of nats is rather wrong. It's just a niche thing, with situational upgrades and a limited amount of units you can produce. If you want them to be as relevant as regular TPs, it means we need to totally revamp the way nats work, not just buff their stats. And that's really not an option if we want to keep EP remotely close to the RE, and if we don't want to start balancing everything again from scratch...

They're situational and it's fine the way it is. I'm okay with buffing some nats stats when they're really underwhelming (like mapuche and zapotecs or whatever), even though I doubt it's needed nor relevant. But we really shouldn't change much more than that.

Btw I think you underestimate the current impact of nats. There's lots of situations where they actually should be used, but even top players just sort of ignore them. It doesn't mean they're necessarily underpowered, just underused. Lots of nats have great techs for the mid or late game: comanches, lakotas/cheyennes, incas, sufis, cherokee, seminole, mapuche, etc. And some are even trained sometimes (like nootkas and incas).

And for the record, yeah I'd consider playing sioux more on high plains because of the cav upgrades. Or ports/brits because of the bisons tech. It's not like it's totally irrelevant in terms of balance.
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Germany duckzilla
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14 Aug 2019, 06:12

Kaiserklein wrote: Lots of nats have great techs for the mid or late game: comanches, lakotas/cheyennes, incas, sufis, cherokee, seminole, mapuche, etc. And some are even trained sometimes (like nootkas and incas).

The techs are usually nice. E.g. Deccan natives are all quite good in this regard. It is quite helpful for Dutch to get +10% villager build limit (which is not +5, but +10 for them, iirc). I would not recommend to change the techs of native TPs.

Regarding the native units, most also seem acceptable (e.g. TAD native units generally seem good to me). In my opinion, the Comanche Horse Archer is a negative exception here though.
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Poland pecelot
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14 Aug 2019, 08:22

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Haha yea, using that shit formula should be a bannable offense xD.

thanks I've already banned him
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