Australia Kawapasaka
Lancer
Donator 06
Posts: 519
ESO: skirmisher1380
Location: Wales (new, south)

30 May 2019, 06:29

Simples wrote:Has there ever been a thought of putting a cap on how many cuirs france can make, say 15 to 20?

Interested to hear people's opinions as i cant see it breaking france in the early game but should stop the pure gendarme mass at late game which is just boring.


Late-game pure Gendarme isn't really viable except maybe vs China from my treaty experience.
Great Britain Simples
Crossbow
Posts: 4

30 May 2019, 07:03

Kawapasaka wrote:Late-game pure Gendarme isn't really viable except maybe vs China from my treaty experience.


Team games its pretty viable!
Great Britain Hazza54321
Gendarme
Donator 01
Posts: 6065

30 May 2019, 07:14

Why make 40 gen when u can make 30 ish gend with 15 skirms behind and be twice as effective
Australia Kawapasaka
Lancer
Donator 06
Posts: 519
ESO: skirmisher1380
Location: Wales (new, south)

30 May 2019, 07:20

Simples wrote:
Kawapasaka wrote:Late-game pure Gendarme isn't really viable except maybe vs China from my treaty experience.


Team games its pretty viable!


Well all team games are about is spamming your civ's most OP unit so whatever.
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10000
ESO: Pezet
Location: Poland

30 May 2019, 10:53

such unit limitations are not really common amongst Europeans, if we want to fix Gendarmes' OP-ness in late game, we should make their stats scale off of their colonial ones, not veteran, which is something the treaty patchers has already done, as far as I'm concerned :geek:
I see a pikeman and I want it painted grey :geek:
User avatar
Finland somppukunkku
Jaeger
Donator 02
Posts: 2571

15 Jul 2019, 16:25

Neutral, no need to change anything.
Co-Founder of Somali Kabuli Gaming
Homo management SKG
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9667
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

16 Jul 2019, 11:08

somppukunkku wrote:Neutral, no need to change anything.

Yea, the civ is bad in a tournament setting with unique maps, but it's good overall.
Germany SolarProminence
Crossbow
Posts: 1

05 Oct 2019, 14:17

Hi I looked at why the French economy is superior to others and came up with a for me satisfying answer so i thought I might as well post a wall of text here. I don't know if French even need to be fixed (I don't think they do), but here is one possible solution:

"Nobody would argue that a Settler Wagon is in any signifant way superior to 2 settlers.
If anything it's more of a hindrance since you can lose both "villagers" at the same time. So why are the French CdB superior?
I'm going to argue that it's an illusion and that their advantage lies mainly in the early game, same as with the Germans.

Let's look at them in detail. They start the game with 6.25 villagers (5*1.25). 0.25 villagers will gather about 37.8 resources over
the course of the first 3 Minutes (0,84*0,25*180). Their first shipment is 3 CdB, or 3.75 regular villagers.
Almost as good as the German card "2 Settler Wagons". They will age up either at 2:30 with 13CdB (16.25 vils) or at 3:00 with
14CdB (=17.5 vils!). It is no wonder why they have a head start early in the game.

The second implication is that of *population efficiency*. A CdB only takes up 1 population slot instead of 1.25.
This may not sound like a big deal but it does make a big difference early on. Not having to build one or two additional houses
frees up wood for military units, buildings, market upgrades, or simply not having too chop as much wood. This is the second part of
the reason why they can pull off a semi FF better then any other civilisation in the game.


Proposed balance changes:
- reduce the 3CdB card to 2 CdB. This way they will age up at the regular 3:00 with 13CdB=16.25 villagers. Which is good but not OP.
- reduce their maximum population cap to 180. This will mean they only have a 100 pop army instead of 120, but with a full economy of
80CdB=100 vils and 2 Factories."
User avatar
Austria KINGofOsmane
Jaeger
Posts: 2831
ESO: KINGofOsmane
Location: Walling Town

05 Oct 2019, 16:11

lol
Image
"gua has good mechanics" GiBthedurrty 2017
"Losing to Callen was the worst night of my life" Gibthedurrty 2019
"If hazza can get pr42 with team i can get pr50 with 1v1" Gibthedurrty 2018
Germany amiggo1999
Dragoon
Donator 01
Posts: 429
ESO: miggo1999
Location: Hannover

05 Oct 2019, 16:15

nice joke
Image
User avatar
France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
NWC LAN 4th place
Posts: 7356
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

05 Oct 2019, 16:37

SolarProminence wrote:Hi I looked at why the French economy is superior to others and came up with a for me satisfying answer so i thought I might as well post a wall of text here. I don't know if French even need to be fixed (I don't think they do), but here is one possible solution:

"Nobody would argue that a Settler Wagon is in any signifant way superior to 2 settlers.
If anything it's more of a hindrance since you can lose both "villagers" at the same time. So why are the French CdB superior?
I'm going to argue that it's an illusion and that their advantage lies mainly in the early game, same as with the Germans.

Let's look at them in detail. They start the game with 6.25 villagers (5*1.25). 0.25 villagers will gather about 37.8 resources over
the course of the first 3 Minutes (0,84*0,25*180). Their first shipment is 3 CdB, or 3.75 regular villagers.
Almost as good as the German card "2 Settler Wagons". They will age up either at 2:30 with 13CdB (16.25 vils) or at 3:00 with
14CdB (=17.5 vils!). It is no wonder why they have a head start early in the game.

The second implication is that of *population efficiency*. A CdB only takes up 1 population slot instead of 1.25.
This may not sound like a big deal but it does make a big difference early on. Not having to build one or two additional houses
frees up wood for military units, buildings, market upgrades, or simply not having too chop as much wood. This is the second part of
the reason why they can pull off a semi FF better then any other civilisation in the game.


Proposed balance changes:
- reduce the 3CdB card to 2 CdB. This way they will age up at the regular 3:00 with 13CdB=16.25 villagers. Which is good but not OP.
- reduce their maximum population cap to 180. This will mean they only have a 100 pop army instead of 120, but with a full economy of
80CdB=100 vils and 2 Factories."

Considering cdbs are the French civ bonus, totally negating their advantages doesn't make sense. Might as well give France regular settlers then.
sirmusket: https://imgur.com/phZoCw6
sirmusket: compare that to ur piece of shit face/height
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
Italy gamevideo113
Howdah
Posts: 1271
ESO: gamevideo113

05 Oct 2019, 17:09

When you troll on aoe3 forum and theyr surprised of your strong shitpost (for your suggestion strong) and says "nice joke" even though you arent joking...my respond always: "thank you for the support"
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019

Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
Germany lordraphael
Jaeger
EWTNWC LAN SilverDonator 01
Posts: 2305

05 Oct 2019, 17:16

well in treaty this is a pretty unfair advantage, so he has a point. But in sup it rarely matters.
breeze wrote:they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
User avatar
Great Britain Riotcoke
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 1819
ESO: Riotcoke
Location: Best County in the UK

05 Oct 2019, 17:24

Kaiserklein wrote:
SolarProminence wrote:Hi I looked at why the French economy is superior to others and came up with a for me satisfying answer so i thought I might as well post a wall of text here. I don't know if French even need to be fixed (I don't think they do), but here is one possible solution:

"Nobody would argue that a Settler Wagon is in any signifant way superior to 2 settlers.
If anything it's more of a hindrance since you can lose both "villagers" at the same time. So why are the French CdB superior?
I'm going to argue that it's an illusion and that their advantage lies mainly in the early game, same as with the Germans.

Let's look at them in detail. They start the game with 6.25 villagers (5*1.25). 0.25 villagers will gather about 37.8 resources over
the course of the first 3 Minutes (0,84*0,25*180). Their first shipment is 3 CdB, or 3.75 regular villagers.
Almost as good as the German card "2 Settler Wagons". They will age up either at 2:30 with 13CdB (16.25 vils) or at 3:00 with
14CdB (=17.5 vils!). It is no wonder why they have a head start early in the game.

The second implication is that of *population efficiency*. A CdB only takes up 1 population slot instead of 1.25.
This may not sound like a big deal but it does make a big difference early on. Not having to build one or two additional houses
frees up wood for military units, buildings, market upgrades, or simply not having too chop as much wood. This is the second part of
the reason why they can pull off a semi FF better then any other civilisation in the game.


Proposed balance changes:
- reduce the 3CdB card to 2 CdB. This way they will age up at the regular 3:00 with 13CdB=16.25 villagers. Which is good but not OP.
- reduce their maximum population cap to 180. This will mean they only have a 100 pop army instead of 120, but with a full economy of
80CdB=100 vils and 2 Factories."

Considering cdbs are the French civ bonus, totally negating their advantages doesn't make sense. Might as well give France regular settlers then.

Then we'd have to hear the french woman's voice all the time, and it's terrifying
You have the charisma of a damp rag, and the appearance of a low-grade bank clerk. And the question that I want to ask, that we're all going to ask, is "Who are you?"
User avatar
Italy gamevideo113
Howdah
Posts: 1271
ESO: gamevideo113

05 Oct 2019, 19:49

We need female cdbs
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019

Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
Australia Kawapasaka
Lancer
Donator 06
Posts: 519
ESO: skirmisher1380
Location: Wales (new, south)

05 Oct 2019, 21:11

SolarProminence wrote:Hi I looked at why the French economy is superior to others and came up with a for me satisfying answer so i thought I might as well post a wall of text here. I don't know if French even need to be fixed (I don't think they do), but here is one possible solution:

"Nobody would argue that a Settler Wagon is in any signifant way superior to 2 settlers.
If anything it's more of a hindrance since you can lose both "villagers" at the same time. So why are the French CdB superior?
I'm going to argue that it's an illusion and that their advantage lies mainly in the early game, same as with the Germans.

Let's look at them in detail. They start the game with 6.25 villagers (5*1.25). 0.25 villagers will gather about 37.8 resources over
the course of the first 3 Minutes (0,84*0,25*180). Their first shipment is 3 CdB, or 3.75 regular villagers.
Almost as good as the German card "2 Settler Wagons". They will age up either at 2:30 with 13CdB (16.25 vils) or at 3:00 with
14CdB (=17.5 vils!). It is no wonder why they have a head start early in the game.

The second implication is that of *population efficiency*. A CdB only takes up 1 population slot instead of 1.25.
This may not sound like a big deal but it does make a big difference early on. Not having to build one or two additional houses
frees up wood for military units, buildings, market upgrades, or simply not having too chop as much wood. This is the second part of
the reason why they can pull off a semi FF better then any other civilisation in the game.


Proposed balance changes:
- reduce the 3CdB card to 2 CdB. This way they will age up at the regular 3:00 with 13CdB=16.25 villagers. Which is good but not OP.
- reduce their maximum population cap to 180. This will mean they only have a 100 pop army instead of 120, but with a full economy of
80CdB=100 vils and 2 Factories."


This is a joke, right?
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8696
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

05 Oct 2019, 21:30

lordraphael wrote:well in treaty this is a pretty unfair advantage, so he has a point. But in sup it rarely matters.
SUP<TR. Dick and Lukas are living proof.
Effective ESOC Patch notes

"♪We can ascend 'till we reach De La Heaven; and in a spin we'll hit the Top Ten♫"
"♪You can't trust anyone, because you're untrustable. How can you trust someone you know can't trust you?♫"
Germany duckzilla
Dragoon
Posts: 406

06 Oct 2019, 07:43

In games like AoE3, an economy is not just the amount of resources acquired over time, but also the quality and cost effectiveness of what you want to do with the resources: producing units. The French economy profits from two things at the same time: a good resource generation as well as a large variety of cost and pop efficient units. In the early game, the former is more impactful (e.g. via better vill shipments). The longer the game goes, the better the relative cost/pop efficiency of French units becomes (upgrade cards, especially the one for cheaper cuirs).

The French economy is perceived as very strong because it does not have any downsides. While the German economy can profit from high resource generation, due to an effective vill limit of 139 instead of 99, its units are both less cost and pop efficient as French units (worse skirm due to lack of HC dmg card, worse cavalry due to pop inefficiency, worse artillery due to the French age IV card). The Ottomans have cost efficient units (good artillery, very cost/pop efficient musketeer, good cavalry), but they lack potential regarding resource generation as well as variety in its unit compositions. While all (?) other civs have their strengths and weaknesses regarding resource generation, pop/cost efficiency and unit variety, France just got it all.

The better your units are, the more resources you can either invest in future resource generation or simply stockpile.
"To counter the pike-boom, you must become the pike-boom." - Karl V. (HRE)
User avatar
Kiribati SirCallen
Gendarme
Posts: 8008
ESO: SirCallen
Location: Midwest best west

06 Oct 2019, 08:19

Fucking @samwise12 was just laming an OP civ this whole time. I bet he's PR 28 at max with a real man's civ, like Spain. CMC? No, smh.
and the giving famishes the craving
sweet thames, run softly, til I end my song

The shepherd's staff's tantalus around my neck

let the water
touch the tongue
No Flag juhjuh
Crossbow
Posts: 32
ESO: MIstress_Shy

09 Oct 2019, 19:55

Kawapasaka wrote:
SolarProminence wrote:Hi I looked at why the French economy is superior to others and came up with a for me satisfying answer so i thought I might as well post a wall of text here. I don't know if French even need to be fixed (I don't think they do), but here is one possible solution:

"Nobody would argue that a Settler Wagon is in any signifant way superior to 2 settlers.
If anything it's more of a hindrance since you can lose both "villagers" at the same time. So why are the French CdB superior?
I'm going to argue that it's an illusion and that their advantage lies mainly in the early game, same as with the Germans.

Let's look at them in detail. They start the game with 6.25 villagers (5*1.25). 0.25 villagers will gather about 37.8 resources over
the course of the first 3 Minutes (0,84*0,25*180). Their first shipment is 3 CdB, or 3.75 regular villagers.
Almost as good as the German card "2 Settler Wagons". They will age up either at 2:30 with 13CdB (16.25 vils) or at 3:00 with
14CdB (=17.5 vils!). It is no wonder why they have a head start early in the game.

The second implication is that of *population efficiency*. A CdB only takes up 1 population slot instead of 1.25.
This may not sound like a big deal but it does make a big difference early on. Not having to build one or two additional houses
frees up wood for military units, buildings, market upgrades, or simply not having too chop as much wood. This is the second part of
the reason why they can pull off a semi FF better then any other civilisation in the game.


Proposed balance changes:
- reduce the 3CdB card to 2 CdB. This way they will age up at the regular 3:00 with 13CdB=16.25 villagers. Which is good but not OP.
- reduce their maximum population cap to 180. This will mean they only have a 100 pop army instead of 120, but with a full economy of
80CdB=100 vils and 2 Factories."


This is a joke, right?


thats it i, would also suggest 4sw in age 1 for ger and Maybe reduce cuir hp to 200? great commant thx

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