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New Zealand zoom
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11 Jan 2020, 17:05

Due to the recent release of EP7 – including EP7.1 – and the mostly preliminary nature of opinions resulting from it, I wasn't initially planning on running another balance poll, until after the Winter Championship. I recently changed my mind, in part thanks to the input of some people. It's been a while since the last poll, and regardless of the confidence in opinion, it's always interesting to see what players make of balance:

https://tinyurl.com/sarc7yp

Please note that no balance updates are currently scheduled for release, before the end of the Winter Championship, and that the next poll will be more extensive.

While we look forward to the continued improvement of the patch, heading into the tournament, I greatly appreciate your continued feedback and support, and wish everyone the best!

Update: Improved results graphics (courtesy of Goodspeed).

Update: Additional data:

Total respondents: 42

Missing responses:


Aztecs: 6
Sioux: 3
Spanish: 2
British, Germans, Indians, Iroquois, Japanese, Portuguese, Russians: 1
EP balance satisfaction: 1
Total: 19 out of 714 unique questions (~2.66%)

Bonus results:

Average confidence: 142/42 = ~3.381
Average balance satisfaction: 161/41 = ~3.927
Average overall satisfaction: 171/42 = ~4.07
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New Zealand zoom
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11 Jan 2020, 17:06

I will try to provide better graphs, soon.
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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
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11 Jan 2020, 22:13

For future polls, would it be possible to make the options non-obligatory? I have no idea how Aztecs stands on EP7 so I would really prefer not to answer that question.
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New Zealand zoom
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12 Jan 2020, 21:34

Mr_Bramboy wrote:For future polls, would it be possible to make the options non-obligatory? I have no idea how Aztecs stands on EP7 so I would really prefer not to answer that question.
Wouldn't that skew results towards the extremes? I would suggest simply giving an average rating, if you don't feel comfortable in guessing.
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New Zealand zoom
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13 Jan 2020, 17:46

zoom wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:For future polls, would it be possible to make the options non-obligatory? I have no idea how Aztecs stands on EP7 so I would really prefer not to answer that question.
Wouldn't that skew results towards the extremes? I would suggest simply giving an average rating, if you don't feel comfortable in guessing.
After some slow thinking, I realized that my fears are largely unfounded, since the only direct impact should be on the sample size of the respective civilizations. I've updated the poll, in case anyone wishes to update their response, accordingly.

Thank you for pointing this issue out!
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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
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13 Jan 2020, 18:05

zoom wrote:
zoom wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:For future polls, would it be possible to make the options non-obligatory? I have no idea how Aztecs stands on EP7 so I would really prefer not to answer that question.
Wouldn't that skew results towards the extremes? I would suggest simply giving an average rating, if you don't feel comfortable in guessing.
After some slow thinking, I realized that my fears are largely unfounded, since the only direct impact should be on the sample size of the respective civilizations. I've updated the poll, in case anyone wishes to update their response, accordingly.

Thank you for pointing this issue out!

I would even say making each option mandatory will skew the results disproportionally. I gave Aztecs a 6, I've got no clue if they're better or worse than in EP6.

I can't 'unselect' my options. Maybe add a 'no comment' option?
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New Zealand zoom
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13 Jan 2020, 18:23

Mr_Bramboy wrote:
zoom wrote:
Show hidden quotes
After some slow thinking, I realized that my fears are largely unfounded, since the only direct impact should be on the sample size of the respective civilizations. I've updated the poll, in case anyone wishes to update their response, accordingly.

Thank you for pointing this issue out!

I would even say making each option mandatory will skew the results disproportionally. I gave Aztecs a 6, I've got no clue if they're better or worse than in EP6.

I can't 'unselect' my options. Maybe add a 'no comment' option?
Indeed!

I struggle to find such an option. Shall I simply delete your response, which should allow you to file a new one?
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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
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13 Jan 2020, 18:45

zoom wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:
Show hidden quotes

I would even say making each option mandatory will skew the results disproportionally. I gave Aztecs a 6, I've got no clue if they're better or worse than in EP6.

I can't 'unselect' my options. Maybe add a 'no comment' option?
Indeed!

I struggle to find such an option. Shall I simply delete your response, which should allow you to file a new one?

Try that!
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New Zealand zoom
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ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

13 Jan 2020, 18:48

Done! Please try, now.
France Le Hussard sur le toit
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ESO: LeHussardsurletoit

13 Jan 2020, 22:17

Polls should always have a "I don't know/don't care option" if you want accurate results. It would overwhelmingly win many polls if it were included !
"5. Shift click your crate villagers. They're iddle after finishing the crates. -5 food"

diarouga
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New Zealand zoom
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14 Jan 2020, 22:26

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:Polls should always have a "I don't know/don't care option" if you want accurate results. It would overwhelmingly win many polls if it were included !
Every option is non-mandatory, now. If anyone doesn't want to answer a specific question, they should simply not respond to it.
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New Zealand zoom
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14 Jan 2020, 22:35

After eventually finishing my response, I thought I'd share it (for reference, and in case anyone is interested). I'm slow—especially when thorough:

Civilization ratings (out of 10):

Br: 7
Fr, Ger: 6
Az, Ch, Du, Ir, Ja, Sp: 5
In, Ot, Po, Ru: 4
Si: 3

Other ratings (out of 5):

Confidence in above civilization ratings: 3
Balance satisfaction: 4
General satisfaction: 4

I hope to share great results graphs, this week.
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New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
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Location: New_Sweland

25 Jan 2020, 13:46

Update: Improved results graphics.

Thank you to Goodspeed for providing his fantastic graphs, and thank you for your patience!
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Italy Garja
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25 Jan 2020, 13:51

Aztecs, Ports and French should be higher. Spain is better than that. In the end it's just 3 close tiers with maybe Brits slightly on top.
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New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
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ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

25 Jan 2020, 13:55

I think Spanish is cursed; the more it is buffed, the weaker it grows. It's like some sort of reverse Chinese.

The results are promising, to say the least.
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France chronique
Advanced Player
Posts: 1638
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

25 Jan 2020, 14:22

zoom wrote:I think Spanish is cursed; the more it is buffed, the weaker it grows. It's like some sort of reverse Chinese.


Becouse all of spain buff doesn't change how bad some mu are.
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Italy Garja
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25 Jan 2020, 14:28

They do but no player seems able to make use of the buffs.
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No Flag RefluxSemantic
Jaeger
Posts: 3173

25 Jan 2020, 14:34

It's because they are buffs to things that were inherently unviable and these buffs don't end up improving the things that spain actually wants to do.
Vietnam Hazza54321
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ESO: PrinceofBabu

25 Jan 2020, 14:35

^^
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France chronique
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ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

25 Jan 2020, 15:06

Garja wrote:They do but no player seems able to make use of the buffs.


You don't play anymore at this game so i dont understand how you can give your oppinion about balance ^^.
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Canada dansil92
ESOC Maps Team
Posts: 1681
ESO: dansil92

25 Jan 2020, 15:09

Spain's main problem is nearly everyone still bot builds the 2006 ff then tries to skirm goon bot afterwards with no eco, it's as simple as that.

;)
SirCallen wrote:Also assume hypothetically that you can left click and shift click and that TPs aren't black holes and the game won't delete your C: drive.
France Le Hussard sur le toit
Lancer
Posts: 574
ESO: LeHussardsurletoit

25 Jan 2020, 15:30

zoom wrote:
Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:Polls should always have a "I don't know/don't care option" if you want accurate results. It would overwhelmingly win many polls if it were included !
Every option is non-mandatory, now. If anyone doesn't want to answer a specific question, they should simply not respond to it.


However the number of "I don't know / don't care" answers can also be significant and it's good polling methodology to include it in any poll (be it about controversial topics such as politics or AOE3 balance, or about consensual ones like which country has the best cooking).
"5. Shift click your crate villagers. They're iddle after finishing the crates. -5 food"

diarouga
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
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ESO: Garja

25 Jan 2020, 17:45

RefluxSemantic wrote:It's because they are buffs to things that were inherently unviable and these buffs don't end up improving the things that spain actually wants to do.

Nah.
Unit shipments were buffed and with that classic FF play.
In addition to that Spanish gold card which is basically 1k gold and unction buff which buffs more booming oriented situations (e.g. colonial games, team games, etc.).
All Spain changes were actually pretty good, except for the fact that Spanish Gold is a bit of wild design (and it's also potentially OP).

It's true that players can't make use of those buffs for the most part simply because there arent' many good Spanish players. And by good I mean both good mechanically and also that know the civ ins and outs.

dansil92 wrote:Spain's main problem is nearly everyone still bot builds the 2006 ff then tries to skirm goon bot afterwards with no eco, it's as simple as that.

;)

The fact is that style is actually viable given the buffs Spain recived. It's just that players don't know how to optimize the builds to sort the best effect and play around the residual Spain weaknesses.

On top of all of this there is the fact that Spain provides almost no benefit over other civs in a tourney setting. So every time it's most likely going to be a substitute of other marginally better/easier-to-play civs. That doesn't mean the civ is too weak.
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Canada dansil92
ESOC Maps Team
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ESO: dansil92

25 Jan 2020, 18:16

I know the naked ff was buffed on EP, but you cant skirm goon bot with 22 vills which is apparently the norm for spain when i see it played outside of atp builds (which really showcase spains strengths much better). With the decreased disparity in ageup time politicians I'd really like to see even one semi-ff style build developing
SirCallen wrote:Also assume hypothetically that you can left click and shift click and that TPs aren't black holes and the game won't delete your C: drive.
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
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ESO: Garja

25 Jan 2020, 18:41

Spain doesn't get 22v. With standard 700g 700w 5v FF (market from 700w) you get enough eco to play it quietly vs civs like French. And that's not even an optimized build.
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