No Flag RefluxSemantic
Howdah
Posts: 1870

25 Mar 2020, 12:12

Its still slightly ugly. Its prettier when you can balance a civ by just changing stats, crate starts or shipments.
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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
ESOC Dev Team
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ESO: EAGLEMUT
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25 Mar 2020, 12:54

zoom wrote:I want to ask Eaglemut whether it were technically possible to implement the following, so I might as well do it here:

– "Great Hunter" now increases deliveries of bison shipments by X% or X units"
It is possible for the shipment to increase deliveries of bison shipments by X units, though the logic would technically be done on each bison shipment. This also means that each bison shipment can be set to deliver a different number of extra bisons, effectively increasing deliveries by a percentage, if desired. Note that, in any case, the bison count displayed on card icon cannot dynamically change, so it would show (arguably) incorrect numbers after activating this effect.

– Teepees now lose 5hp per second, self-destructing when reaching 0hp
Not possible; units cannot naturally die from hp degeneration.

kaister wrote:Why not add a tactical nuke for 3k gold?
Depending on the definition of "tactical nuke", this should be possible as a targeted area-of-effect power.
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France iNcog
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ESO: kami_ryu

25 Mar 2020, 12:59

I would go with 450w. 400w is super cheap.
For I am Oden, and I was born... TO BOIL!
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Canada dansil92
ESOC Maps Team
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ESO: dansil92

25 Mar 2020, 13:47

One specific thing I'd thought of for sioux would be an age IV farm card something like "3 Sisters" (a farming technique developed and widely used by the Sioux people) for like 30-40% to farms. It wouldn't be super relevant most games but would at least give them a lategame way to get some vestige of food eco after hunts are gone
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Italy gamevideo113
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25 Mar 2020, 14:40

dansil92 wrote:One specific thing I'd thought of for sioux would be an age IV farm card something like "3 Sisters" (a farming technique developed and widely used by the Sioux people) for like 30-40% to farms. It wouldn't be super relevant most games but would at least give them a lategame way to get some vestige of food eco after hunts are gone

Yeah, Sioux really need a boost to their lategame gathering. Either another farm upgrade card, or an infinite bison shipment in IV, which imo would be worth sending, even multiple times, because by the time you enter the lategame you'll have a lot of upgrades on your hunters:
Sioux Hunting Upgrades

I can also see that Age4 is rarely reached in 1v1 so an Age4 change would probably have no impact in the current competitive scene, but i believe that the civ still needs a lategame overhaul.
I think it could even be made the argument that the civ losing scaling in late fortress is physiological, and doesn't need to be adressed specifically (by the way - there are also cards for that, like Mustangs and Adoption). It makes sense for native civs to be interested in aging anyway because they have significantly cheaper upgrades, and get a better power spike out of the age up compared to euro.
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019

Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
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Canada dansil92
ESOC Maps Team
Posts: 918
ESO: dansil92

25 Mar 2020, 15:11

What is so strange about Sioux is just how many late game techs they have. Horsemanship, gun trade, bonepipe armour, etc. But then have literally 0 reason to go that late in the game and no eco techs to allow them to even use their potential. Really disappointing tbh
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France Kaiserklein
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Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

25 Mar 2020, 15:33

zoom wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Yeah please let's stop wasting time and energy and focus on actual stuff.
So how about reverting the weird 30% rr on warchief
It's only happening if we replace it and the heavy cavalry tag with snare removal, which seems undesirable. Players were pretty clear about 10% resistance and the heavy cavalry tag being far too much.

We're not removing the snare, and we're not keeping 30% rr, unless we want a stupid warchief.
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Playing Aztec is a 10% handicap

LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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France [Armag] diarouga
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25 Mar 2020, 15:54

Kaiserklein wrote:
zoom wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Yeah please let's stop wasting time and energy and focus on actual stuff.
So how about reverting the weird 30% rr on warchief
It's only happening if we replace it and the heavy cavalry tag with snare removal, which seems undesirable. Players were pretty clear about 10% resistance and the heavy cavalry tag being far too much.

We're not removing the snare, and we're not keeping 30% rr, unless we want a stupid warchief.

Wtf ? We're asknig for a 30% RR revert and the "only" option is to remove snare ?
EP logic ????
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 9275
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

25 Mar 2020, 18:05

SirCallen wrote:Oof not gonna lie those are ugly changes
Great Hunter increasing bison shipment power is ugly to you? Yikes! I don't mind simply tuning it to 30%, which I also suggested to Mitoe. Other than that, in terms of effect, it's the best option that I've seen. I strongly dislike any change that would make bison shipments less viable.
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 9275
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

25 Mar 2020, 18:06

gamevideo113 wrote:
dansil92 wrote:One specific thing I'd thought of for sioux would be an age IV farm card something like "3 Sisters" (a farming technique developed and widely used by the Sioux people) for like 30-40% to farms. It wouldn't be super relevant most games but would at least give them a lategame way to get some vestige of food eco after hunts are gone

Yeah, Sioux really need a boost to their lategame gathering. Either another farm upgrade card, or an infinite bison shipment in IV, which imo would be worth sending, even multiple times, because by the time you enter the lategame you'll have a lot of upgrades on your hunters:
Sioux Hunting Upgrades

I can also see that Age4 is rarely reached in 1v1 so an Age4 change would probably have no impact in the current competitive scene, but i believe that the civ still needs a lategame overhaul.
I think it could even be made the argument that the civ losing scaling in late fortress is physiological, and doesn't need to be adressed specifically (by the way - there are also cards for that, like Mustangs and Adoption). It makes sense for native civs to be interested in aging anyway because they have significantly cheaper upgrades, and get a better power spike out of the age up compared to euro.
Don't worry. I will be testing transfering the gather-aura to one of the Teepee upgrade shipments, whenever this revamp happens.
Great Britain Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 6721
ESO: PrinceofBabu

25 Mar 2020, 18:09

zoom wrote:
gamevideo113 wrote:
dansil92 wrote:One specific thing I'd thought of for sioux would be an age IV farm card something like "3 Sisters" (a farming technique developed and widely used by the Sioux people) for like 30-40% to farms. It wouldn't be super relevant most games but would at least give them a lategame way to get some vestige of food eco after hunts are gone

Yeah, Sioux really need a boost to their lategame gathering. Either another farm upgrade card, or an infinite bison shipment in IV, which imo would be worth sending, even multiple times, because by the time you enter the lategame you'll have a lot of upgrades on your hunters:
Sioux Hunting Upgrades

I can also see that Age4 is rarely reached in 1v1 so an Age4 change would probably have no impact in the current competitive scene, but i believe that the civ still needs a lategame overhaul.
I think it could even be made the argument that the civ losing scaling in late fortress is physiological, and doesn't need to be adressed specifically (by the way - there are also cards for that, like Mustangs and Adoption). It makes sense for native civs to be interested in aging anyway because they have significantly cheaper upgrades, and get a better power spike out of the age up compared to euro.
DW. I will be transfering the gather-aura to one of the Teepee upgrade shipments, whenever this revamp happens.

please dont
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 9275
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

25 Mar 2020, 18:13

zoom wrote:
Mitoe wrote:
EAGLEMUT wrote:I actually liked that. Teepees feeling more like a core feature of the civ doesn't seem like bad design in itself at all, that actually feels like what they always should've been. You don't see players complain that building houses every game is a no-brainer with other civilizations. Teepees can be the equivalent of that, for Sioux. Besides, the real decision-making is in where you're going to build them and whether you're going to delete them to move somewhere else.
That said, eco aura is obviously not the only way of achieving viable teepees. I just wanted to underline that the viability of teepees is something I enjoyed, and I hope these changes don't result in taking them out of the game again.

Yeah I can respect that, it just seems like the gather rate aura wasn't working overall and always had to receive more and more changes every single patch. The cost decrease hopefully will keep them relevant.
Presumably so – until EP7, where it most likely would now only take tweaking the numbers as planned, to make the civilization a little stronger and a little less unbreakable, overall.

As far as I can tell, the (logical) problem was never that you would be building Teepees every game; it's that the feature was so poorly implemented, that it meant that every game you would build as many Teepees as you possibly could, like a tumor attached to your starting Town Center, and spawn-camp until your broken "Broken Arrow" Dog Soldier big-button came in at 14 minutes. There was consideration neither as to how many you would build, nor where you would build them. Whether you like it is a separate issue, but logically it's not any different from building houses, other than being unique to the civilization, is it?

If I weren't such a slow thinker, we could have had this version a long time ago.
Fuck me; it's "Black Arrow", isn't it?
: (
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 9275
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

25 Mar 2020, 19:08

Hazza54321 wrote:
zoom wrote:
Show hidden quotes
DW. I will be transfering the gather-aura to one of the Teepee upgrade shipments, whenever this revamp happens.

please dont
It strikes me as a good compromise, to satisfy the players who like the aura (which I have found comprise a significant category), and does something to help later scaling, which the civilization seems to sorely need. Over the years, I've seen lots of people suggesting doing exactly that, too. Testing it, then polling it, seems like a reasonable thing to do. What's so bad about that plan?
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Canada dansil92
ESOC Maps Team
Posts: 918
ESO: dansil92

26 Mar 2020, 00:25

5v
wakina 18 range -> 20 range
rifle rider gets 20rr instead of melee resist

this is my whole list of things i would change to ep7 sioux
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France chronique
Advanced Player
Posts: 731
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

26 Mar 2020, 00:28

dansil92 wrote:rifle rider gets 20rr instead of melee resist


No, RR need to be widely countered by skirm, this unit is a f**** gateling lol.
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Canada dansil92
ESOC Maps Team
Posts: 918
ESO: dansil92

26 Mar 2020, 01:14

chronique wrote:
dansil92 wrote:rifle rider gets 20rr instead of melee resist


No, RR need to be widely countered by skirm, this unit is a f**** gateling lol.


It's 220 res unit and gets one shotted by like 10 skirms it's bloody useless right now
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France Kaiserklein
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Posts: 8197
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

26 Mar 2020, 10:03

No it's not useless, whenever it's vs musk/huss kind of stuff it's quite an OP unit. Just a terrible unit when goons are involved basically. If they have RI / HI / cav, you can go pure axe + rr and it's essentially not counterable.
Doesn't need 20% rr, also I think it's cheaper on EP already.

Also giving wakinas 20 range would probably make them OP. Right now the unit is strong already because it has an insane attack for its cost, but its lower range means you can't really go for skirm wars. You need some axe in front basically, and then your wakinas just deal a ton of damage. I don't think we want to change that.
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Playing Aztec is a 10% handicap

LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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France chronique
Advanced Player
Posts: 731
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

26 Mar 2020, 10:44

dansil92 wrote:
It's 220 res unit and gets one shotted by like 10 skirms it's bloody useless right now


If iam not wrong this unit cost 120f 90g now, and like kaiser said, ask otto/spain player if rr are usless ^^.
No Flag Astaroth
Dragoon
Posts: 278

26 Mar 2020, 11:00

Lol imagine Otto vs Sioux with Rifle riders having 20 % rr.

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