New Maps for EPL2/Next Patch

[iNcog]

Due to some reasonable complaints regarding tapirs being invisible on tuparro, I offer a potential reskin of the map, preserving the original resource spawns and animals/ natives:

2020-04-13 21.44.13.png

Is this preferred? or should time travel be explored to prevent the bayou texture set ever being created?

looks fantastic!

[Garja]

Due to some reasonable complaints regarding tapirs being invisible on tuparro, I offer a potential reskin of the map, preserving the original resource spawns and animals/ natives:

2020-04-13 21.44.13.png

Is this preferred? or should time travel be explored to prevent the bayou texture set ever being created?

What about Amazonia tileset (and water if possible). Also cliff.

[Mr_Bramboy]

can we get rid of the middle 4TP line on Tupparo though, seems like the 2 spawn variations are so huge in terms of gameplay difference

I agree, you should be able to know the spawn before you click into the map. We already have plenty of maps with 3-5 tps in the middle so I suggest keeping the two TP lines on the sides.

[iNcog]

Nah I like the middle TP line. more aggressive on a food heavy fap map

(goodness what a typo)

[dansil92]

Due to some reasonable complaints regarding tapirs being invisible on tuparro, I offer a potential reskin of the map, preserving the original resource spawns and animals/ natives:

2020-04-13 21.44.13.png

Is this preferred? or should time travel be explored to prevent the bayou texture set ever being created?

What about Amazonia tileset (and water if possible). Also cliff.

If amazonia textures are used that stupid water turns into a cliff spam nightmare

[Imperial Noob]

These new maps are not only interesting, but also look great. It's very satisfying to see. Keep up the good work :)

[Garja]

Due to some reasonable complaints regarding tapirs being invisible on tuparro, I offer a potential reskin of the map, preserving the original resource spawns and animals/ natives:

2020-04-13 21.44.13.png

Is this preferred? or should time travel be explored to prevent the bayou texture set ever being created?

What about Amazonia tileset (and water if possible). Also cliff.

If amazonia textures are used that stupid water turns into a cliff spam nightmare

There are two amazonia water types, amazonia river and amazonia basin. One of the two shouldn't generate cliffs. Alterntively can use bayou water with amazonia terrain, mixing in few small bayou patches.
Also I'd put some "amazonia river plants props" and "shallow rocks large props" in the water.

Btw rush distance is unusually short (40 secs), might want to move TCs slightly farther back. I'd also put some different terrain under puya trees to highlight them.
Personally I'm not a great fan of long shadow lighting, I prefer something relatively bright (given the location) with somewhat standard shadow lenght.

[dansil92]

Garja™ Tuparro

[Guigs]

can we get rid of the middle 4TP line on Tupparo though, seems like the 2 spawn variations are so huge in terms of gameplay difference

I agree, you should be able to know the spawn before you click into the map. We already have plenty of maps with 3-5 tps in the middle so I suggest keeping the two TP lines on the sides.

Disagree, it's the same story for manchuria spawns and hudson bay.

[iNcog]

Yeah and those maps are great

[Mitoe]

can we get rid of the middle 4TP line on Tupparo though, seems like the 2 spawn variations are so huge in terms of gameplay difference

I agree, you should be able to know the spawn before you click into the map. We already have plenty of maps with 3-5 tps in the middle so I suggest keeping the two TP lines on the sides.

Disagree, it's the same story for manchuria spawns and hudson bay.

This is a bit different because on Manchuria you have LOS of one TP if it's the double route spawn; so at the start of the game you always know where the TP is. Similarly, on Hudson Bay you always have to walk the same direction to get to the TP anyway, so it's quick and easy to discover where the line is without any drawbacks.

On Tupparo, however, it's very difficult to know where the TP is going to spawn exactly, and the first pass differs a lot on those lines so if you go to the wrong one you could be losing out on some resources.


Also, I like the short rush distance on Tupparo.

[Guigs]

Show hidden quotes

can we get rid of the middle 4TP line on Tupparo though, seems like the 2 spawn variations are so huge in terms of gameplay difference

I agree, you should be able to know the spawn before you click into the map. We already have plenty of maps with 3-5 tps in the middle so I suggest keeping the two TP lines on the sides.

Disagree, it's the same story for manchuria spawns and hudson bay.

This is a bit different because on Manchuria you have LOS of one TP if it's the double route spawn; so at the start of the game you always know where the TP is. Similarly, on Hudson Bay you always have to walk the same direction to get to the TP anyway, so it's quick and easy to discover where the line is without any drawbacks.

On Tupparo, however, it's very difficult to know where the TP is going to spawn exactly, and the first pass differs a lot on those lines so if you go to the wrong one you could be losing out on some resources.


Also, I like the short rush distance on Tupparo.

Yeah that makes sense you're right. My point was regarding "you should be able to know the spawn before you click into the map" and the strategy you want to adopt. you might consider stagecoach on the 4 tp line spawn for Tuparro the same way you would consider stagecoach plan for the 3tp line on hudson bay while you prob won't do it on the 2nd spawn with 2 different lines.
So yeah it makes sense to fix tuparro spawn for the reasons you mentionned but shouldn't it be the same for hudson bay and manchuria ?

[dansil92]

Show hidden quotes

can we get rid of the middle 4TP line on Tupparo though, seems like the 2 spawn variations are so huge in terms of gameplay difference

I agree, you should be able to know the spawn before you click into the map. We already have plenty of maps with 3-5 tps in the middle so I suggest keeping the two TP lines on the sides.

Disagree, it's the same story for manchuria spawns and hudson bay.

This is a bit different because on Manchuria you have LOS of one TP if it's the double route spawn; so at the start of the game you always know where the TP is. Similarly, on Hudson Bay you always have to walk the same direction to get to the TP anyway, so it's quick and easy to discover where the line is without any drawbacks.

On Tupparo, however, it's very difficult to know where the TP is going to spawn exactly, and the first pass differs a lot on those lines so if you go to the wrong one you could be losing out on some resources.


Also, I like the short rush distance on Tupparo.

The short distance is critical to the map design, and one of my favourite parts of the map. I am perfectly willing to fix it to one tp spawn except I have no idea which to fix it to, since both are equally interesting (the whole reason i made two spawns in the first place). Im weighing towards the single line, however. Alternatively i could make tps visible upon spawning, but that is a nerf to twc civs

[Mitoe]

Show hidden quotes

can we get rid of the middle 4TP line on Tupparo though, seems like the 2 spawn variations are so huge in terms of gameplay difference

I agree, you should be able to know the spawn before you click into the map. We already have plenty of maps with 3-5 tps in the middle so I suggest keeping the two TP lines on the sides.

Disagree, it's the same story for manchuria spawns and hudson bay.

This is a bit different because on Manchuria you have LOS of one TP if it's the double route spawn; so at the start of the game you always know where the TP is. Similarly, on Hudson Bay you always have to walk the same direction to get to the TP anyway, so it's quick and easy to discover where the line is without any drawbacks.

On Tupparo, however, it's very difficult to know where the TP is going to spawn exactly, and the first pass differs a lot on those lines so if you go to the wrong one you could be losing out on some resources.


Also, I like the short rush distance on Tupparo.

The short distance is critical to the map design, and one of my favourite parts of the map. I am perfectly willing to fix it to one tp spawn except I have no idea which to fix it to, since both are equally interesting (the whole reason i made two spawns in the first place). Im weighing towards the single line, however. Alternatively i could make tps visible upon spawning, but that is a nerf to twc civs

It's a negligible nerf to warchief civs I think.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Show hidden quotes

can we get rid of the middle 4TP line on Tupparo though, seems like the 2 spawn variations are so huge in terms of gameplay difference

I agree, you should be able to know the spawn before you click into the map. We already have plenty of maps with 3-5 tps in the middle so I suggest keeping the two TP lines on the sides.

Disagree, it's the same story for manchuria spawns and hudson bay.

This is a bit different because on Manchuria you have LOS of one TP if it's the double route spawn; so at the start of the game you always know where the TP is. Similarly, on Hudson Bay you always have to walk the same direction to get to the TP anyway, so it's quick and easy to discover where the line is without any drawbacks.

On Tupparo, however, it's very difficult to know where the TP is going to spawn exactly, and the first pass differs a lot on those lines so if you go to the wrong one you could be losing out on some resources.


Also, I like the short rush distance on Tupparo.

Yeah that makes sense you're right. My point was regarding "you should be able to know the spawn before you click into the map" and the strategy you want to adopt. you might consider stagecoach on the 4 tp line spawn for Tuparro the same way you would consider stagecoach plan for the 3tp line on hudson bay while you prob won't do it on the 2nd spawn with 2 different lines.
So yeah it makes sense to fix tuparro spawn for the reasons you mentionned but shouldn't it be the same for hudson bay and manchuria ?

It should be the same for Hudson and Manchuria yea. It should be 2x2 TP Manchuria or 3TP Manchuria, just like we make a difference between summer kamchatka and winter kamchatka.

[Mitoe]

Show hidden quotes

can we get rid of the middle 4TP line on Tupparo though, seems like the 2 spawn variations are so huge in terms of gameplay difference

I agree, you should be able to know the spawn before you click into the map. We already have plenty of maps with 3-5 tps in the middle so I suggest keeping the two TP lines on the sides.

Disagree, it's the same story for manchuria spawns and hudson bay.

This is a bit different because on Manchuria you have LOS of one TP if it's the double route spawn; so at the start of the game you always know where the TP is. Similarly, on Hudson Bay you always have to walk the same direction to get to the TP anyway, so it's quick and easy to discover where the line is without any drawbacks.

On Tupparo, however, it's very difficult to know where the TP is going to spawn exactly, and the first pass differs a lot on those lines so if you go to the wrong one you could be losing out on some resources.


Also, I like the short rush distance on Tupparo.

Yeah that makes sense you're right. My point was regarding "you should be able to know the spawn before you click into the map" and the strategy you want to adopt. you might consider stagecoach on the 4 tp line spawn for Tuparro the same way you would consider stagecoach plan for the 3tp line on hudson bay while you prob won't do it on the 2nd spawn with 2 different lines.
So yeah it makes sense to fix tuparro spawn for the reasons you mentionned but shouldn't it be the same for hudson bay and manchuria ?

I don't think the line on Hudson makes much of a difference in strategy usually. Whether or not you stagecoach is mostly dependent on the matchup and what the opponent chooses to do.

Manchuria I think is ok as well just because a short easy-to-defend line like that benefits almost all civs equally.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Show hidden quotes

can we get rid of the middle 4TP line on Tupparo though, seems like the 2 spawn variations are so huge in terms of gameplay difference

I agree, you should be able to know the spawn before you click into the map. We already have plenty of maps with 3-5 tps in the middle so I suggest keeping the two TP lines on the sides.

Disagree, it's the same story for manchuria spawns and hudson bay.

This is a bit different because on Manchuria you have LOS of one TP if it's the double route spawn; so at the start of the game you always know where the TP is. Similarly, on Hudson Bay you always have to walk the same direction to get to the TP anyway, so it's quick and easy to discover where the line is without any drawbacks.

On Tupparo, however, it's very difficult to know where the TP is going to spawn exactly, and the first pass differs a lot on those lines so if you go to the wrong one you could be losing out on some resources.


Also, I like the short rush distance on Tupparo.

The short distance is critical to the map design, and one of my favourite parts of the map. I am perfectly willing to fix it to one tp spawn except I have no idea which to fix it to, since both are equally interesting (the whole reason i made two spawns in the first place). Im weighing towards the single line, however. Alternatively i could make tps visible upon spawning, but that is a nerf to twc civs

It's a negligible nerf to warchief civs I think.

It's not that negligible honestly.
Keep the two spawns and give people the option to pick which spawn they want. The tourney staff would need to decide which spawn is the tournament spawn then.

[Lukas_L99]

Show hidden quotes

can we get rid of the middle 4TP line on Tupparo though, seems like the 2 spawn variations are so huge in terms of gameplay difference

I agree, you should be able to know the spawn before you click into the map. We already have plenty of maps with 3-5 tps in the middle so I suggest keeping the two TP lines on the sides.

Disagree, it's the same story for manchuria spawns and hudson bay.

This is a bit different because on Manchuria you have LOS of one TP if it's the double route spawn; so at the start of the game you always know where the TP is. Similarly, on Hudson Bay you always have to walk the same direction to get to the TP anyway, so it's quick and easy to discover where the line is without any drawbacks.

On Tupparo, however, it's very difficult to know where the TP is going to spawn exactly, and the first pass differs a lot on those lines so if you go to the wrong one you could be losing out on some resources.


Also, I like the short rush distance on Tupparo.

The short distance is critical to the map design, and one of my favourite parts of the map. I am perfectly willing to fix it to one tp spawn except I have no idea which to fix it to, since both are equally interesting (the whole reason i made two spawns in the first place). Im weighing towards the single line, however. Alternatively i could make tps visible upon spawning, but that is a nerf to twc civs

It's a negligible nerf to warchief civs I think.

Are you talking in general or just on that map?

You'd be surprised how many times you find a good treasure (especially those with renegados to convert) as nat civ thanks to the TPs being scouted

[Garja]

Different spawns are mostly neglectable and when they are not is usually exactly to balance something on the map. E.g winter Kamchatka is to balance picking a civ 100% of times who benefits a lot from walling the chokes. Winter Hudson Bay is to balance heavy water camping.

[vividlyplain]

An update is coming out (soon) and I'd like to share what's new with my maps. Thank you to everyone that has provided feedback!

All maps have been slightly reduced in size.

Dhaka:
- both natives are bhakti (i felt this would be more balanced so both players could get a bhakti temple for the berry upgrade if they want)
- 6 whales spawn in 1v1 (up from 4)
- players receive an extra hunt in team games

Bering Strait:
- fewer treasures (only 4 tier 2 and 8-10 tier 1)
- tier 2 treasures only spawn on the islands/ice (usually near the gold mines)
- 4 tps now spawn in team games and players receive an extra hunt (since the 5 muskox herd only spawns in 1v1)

Fraser River:
- treasures should spawn more consistently (some spawns only saw 3-4 treasures spawn on the entire map).... hopefully this isn't an issue anymore but it's quite crowded and sometimes they don't spawn
- 6 tps spawn in 3v3+ and players receive an additional hunt
- japan now spawns more consistently with 2 orchards (base was too crowded before)

Wabakimi:
- brighter lighting
- more tps in team games and players begin with an additional hunt

Nepal:
- more hunts (see new minimap)
- down to 3 tps (and new shape)
- dimmer lighting
- 4 tps spawn in team games

[Mr_Bramboy]

I had a problem in a recent team game with the mountain goats on Nepal. Although they are aesthetically pleasing, my teammate's villagers were stuck trying to get to that hunt. They weren't showing up as idle because they were technically hunting.

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

Seems like ever map is, give this map more hunt hahaha, Dhaka has been crazy enough as it is but 6 whales hot damm that's insane. Like the patagonia re days

[[Armag] diarouga]

Seems like ever map is, give this map more hunt hahaha, Dhaka has been crazy enough as it is but 6 whales hot damm that's insane. Like the patagonia re days

Except Patagonia has no hunts and only 2 TPs. 6 whales is what you need if you want water to be viable.

[vividlyplain]

I had a problem in a recent team game with the mountain goats on Nepal. Although they are aesthetically pleasing, my teammate's villagers were stuck trying to get to that hunt. They weren't showing up as idle because they were technically hunting.

1) hopefully with the increased number of hunts you won't need those hunts in a typical game
2) making note of this... will check it out in future

[vividlyplain]

Seems like ever map is, give this map more hunt hahaha, Dhaka has been crazy enough as it is but 6 whales hot damm that's insane. Like the patagonia re days

mostly in team as the way i had the hunts set for many maps was inadequate for a team games and nepal was way too low hunt

also on patagonia there are 4 whales per player so that's 8 in a 1v1 and 16 in 2v2...