EP9: AZTEC

[Zeke]

Keep smoking mirror the same while it also adds HI tag to the war chief

Because of course azzy needs a 5th unit hard countered by skirms

I think azzy WC is fine now, with the healing dance nerf, maybe just keep smoking mirror as it is now

[dansil92]

i would like to give a bit of feedback on the warchief/ smoking mirror nerf:

if the speed and cover mode are nerfed, it is gonna be necessary to revert the heal dance. all 3 together is just a complete and utter nerf of basically all azzy games that go past 20 minutes, and destroys the FI even more than its already abysmal current state.

the high priest card is just a better card in discovery age anyway.

a potential option if it is decided to triple nerf (cover/speed/heal dance) the chief permanently, smoking mirror should at the very least significantly buff either attack, hitpoints or ranged armour, any of which would ok too.


and I once again maintain the Shaman ageup should grant a travois and a warrior priest

[fei123456]

The start crate was the problem. Aztec has actually 7 villagers at the beginning; they still have 4 food and 3 wood crates. That's unfair.
6 coyote is proper imo (5 coyote 550 res is just dumb); mace seems to be a bit overpowered in age 2. Nerfing them to 7 attack (may give them some other buffs) should work.

Another interesting idea is about WP number: what about giving them a limit for 5/10/15/20 in age 2/3/4/5? Their early boom is less scary (but 5 WP is still a significant boost); their late game strength improved a lot.

[Kaiserklein]

Eh. I'd rather have 7 vils over 5 vils + 1 warrior priest any day. The 2 vils can be toggled to any resource, they don't just have to dance for xp. Also they don't require a 100w building (which is why aztec has more wood crates anyway). Can't count like that really

[fei123456]

Eh. I'd rather have 7 vils over 5 vils + 1 warrior priest any day. The 2 vils can be toggled to any resource, they don't just have to dance for xp. Also they don't require a 100w building (which is why aztec has more wood crates anyway). Can't count like that really

Well, 1 fire pit + 1 WP = 1 TP here. so Aztec have 5 vills and a START TP (that's always dangerous, considering how lame RE Otto and Iroq are), and still have 4 food 2 wood crates. That's obviously too many.

[dansil92]

They also get an outpost+stable+rax all in a single building. Azzy has some very strong aspects made up for by their lack of a musk unit, squishy cav, awkward transition to fortress, pop inefficient mace (good yes, but since coyo and puma are just dumped on so hard by musks this is actually really important for mace to be good, you nerf mace and you nerf coyo and puma indirectly too). Azzy has been low-to-bottom tier with all this for ages now, only with the two warhut poli (disastrous) and awkward map pool on epl have they ever actually seemed strong

[Garja]

The firepit is not equal to a TP it is actually less than 1xp/sec (TP is 1.25 xp/sec on average).
As for where Aztecs stand in the civ list it's not even that low. There simply aren't good Aztec players and the civ is overall harder to play so none bothers focusing on it.

[Mitoe]

Smoking mirror change will be cancelled. Thanks for the feedback.

[dansil92]

I had one potential idea to balance out the chief a bit. What if the infantry tag was removed and replaced with the "abstractLightInfantry" ? Then he would behave more like a coyote runner and lose to musks and pikes, etc. This would not change his effectiveness vs skirms (skirms have penalty against coyoteman tag, not skirm) with the exception of abus guns of course, would Increase his anti-artillery power, but give a melee hard counter. Thoughts?

[Mitoe]

Nah, it's ok. I'm buffing spies as a counter to him instead

[[Armag] diarouga]

Nah, it's ok. I'm buffing spies as a counter to him instead

+1
From a design perspective, buffing a counter unit is better than a nerfing a unit to the ground.

[Kaiserklein]

From a design perspective, you shouldn't be able to spam an unkillable unit brainlessly and essentially for free while your opponent has to micro all the time

[Garja]

Thing is the war chief mechanic compensates for being outmicroed super hard by any other unit (skirm with longer range, cav with more speed, etc.).

[Kaiserklein]

Well now maces can get 18 range and have more speed, while carded coyos are faster than huss. So I don't think it's that big a problem anymore.
Also either way the warchief lame is an extremely unhealthy mechanic. If aztecs get kited too much, surely there are better ways to fix the civ

[iNcog]

lol yeah wc is op/lame

[SquidTheSid]

Instead of boosting the range resist on Coyote Combat (I think that's a bit much for a colonial age card with the new changes), why don't we alter skirmisher/archer damage bonuses for Coyote Runners and other Light Infantry instead? In RE, it's a 0.75x damage bonus vs units with the CoyoteMan tag. I've gone ahead and added in a secondary 0.75x damage bonus to AbstractLightInfantry (as Dansil suggested), so that skirmishers/archers have an overall 0.56x damage multiplier versus Coyote Runners (and other units with Coyoteman tags). This also fixes the problem of Eagle Runner Knights taking double damage from skirms as opposed to 1.5x like other dragoon units.

In my changes, musketeers still counter coyote runners, but it's harder for skirmishers to overwhelm them. Testing 50 Coyote Runners against 50 Gurkha, on RE, I lost 15 Coyotes, whereas I lost only 9 with this damage bonus change.

[rsy]

Did the aztec wall dance get nerfed on ep? It's so fucking dumb

[aligator92]

Did the aztec wall dance get nerfed on ep? It's so fucking dumb

Did you lose to @Black_Duck by any chance?

[richard]

Did the aztec wall dance get nerfed on ep? It's so fucking dumb

Walls are too cheap. You need like 1000 res worth of units hammering on it for like 1 minute to get a piece of wall down which costs 5 wood. If your opponent can kill one of your units during this process you got a deficit. So it is better not to siege walls. Therefore, walls remove interaction between players.

[Black_Duck]

Did the aztec wall dance get nerfed on ep? It's so fucking dumb

Its beautiful

[chris1089]

ego post

[Black_Duck]

ego post

Obviously, Ive been waiting for the perfect opportunity to get this bad boy out for weeks

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

Did the aztec wall dance get nerfed on ep? It's so fucking dumb

Its beautiful

30 minute game :O gotta cast this one !

[Black_Duck]

Did the aztec wall dance get nerfed on ep? It's so fucking dumb

Its beautiful

30 minute game :O gotta cast this one !

Just imagine the Passi rage as you go through it

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

Show hidden quotes

Did the aztec wall dance get nerfed on ep? It's so fucking dumb

Its beautiful

30 minute game :O gotta cast this one !

Just imagine the Passi rage as you go through it

Let me sumarize:

- doesnt train a vill for a minute on age up to 2nd age
- full greedy slow 5 bank ff into straight FI with church card
- mega eco
- send factories, researches mass production while having them in queue
- only manages to successfully train 2 heavy canons out of 10 or 12 in total
- never researched arsenal ups
- gets rekt after taking too long

still better than me though