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Finland princeofkabul
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21 Nov 2020, 18:04

Victor_swe wrote:Hmm GG_Magic at pr50 and victor at top 13...
Im such a fake.


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Austria Jerimuno
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21 Nov 2020, 18:11

Fuckface was playing back then and in top 20 ish? Wtf
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France [Armag] diarouga
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21 Nov 2020, 18:36

Jerimuno wrote:Fuckface was playing back then and in top 20 ish? Wtf

Ye, I was surprised too when I saw that a few years ago. That's why power rank in 2007 means nothing, every player was pr45 lol.
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United States of America _H2O
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21 Nov 2020, 18:44

The PR ones also mean little because they are also including team game guys. Unholy soul was one of my good buddies and he played mostly team.
Vietnam Hazza54321
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21 Nov 2020, 18:46

How dare you discredit teamgame guys
Sweden Victor_swe
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21 Nov 2020, 18:50

I was currently making my own unbaised top ever list. Was considering hazza somewhere quite high then i remembered he was a teamgame/treaty lamer.
Dead hunts cant walk....

BrookG - "There is a G in everyone"
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European Union aaryngend
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21 Nov 2020, 18:51

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Jerimuno wrote:Fuckface was playing back then and in top 20 ish? Wtf

Ye, I was surprised too when I saw that a few years ago. That's why power rank in 2007 means nothing, every player was pr45 lol.
Having between 20-30 people being PR45 and up isn't much though? (not counting point traders and cheaters/dodgers)
You are just used to a quite inactive ESO so the higher ranks were even less populated :ship:
Vietnam Hazza54321
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21 Nov 2020, 18:55

Victor_swe wrote:I was currently making my own unbaised top ever list. Was considering hazza somewhere quite high then i remembered he was a teamgame/treaty lamer.

What is this discrimination!
Sweden Victor_swe
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21 Nov 2020, 19:28

Hazza54321 wrote:
Victor_swe wrote:I was currently making my own unbaised top ever list. Was considering hazza somewhere quite high then i remembered he was a teamgame/treaty lamer.

What is this discrimination!

I Forgot dm lamer. We all know ur secretly also hazzardroxx
Dead hunts cant walk....

BrookG - "There is a G in everyone"
Sweden Challe
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21 Nov 2020, 23:25

princeofkabul wrote:
Challe wrote:
spadel wrote:Having played all the guys mentioned in this thread on a high level (except grunt maybe, who I only played against when he was smurfing years later), the most dominating players to me were H20 and Samwise during FP. It was literally impossible for me to win any matchup by standard play, I could only take away some games with cheese strategies. Also I only played Naturephoenix twice and got crushed of course, but from the recs he was insane aswell.

From the time I came back in 2012 and won pkclan I continuously played against top players and noone was ever as dominant as H2O and Samwise. Maybe it's difficult for the "younger" players to understand or accept that, because they were simply not good enough back in the days or playing the game at all. Samwise once made a really nice post (https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php ... nt#p353643) and sums up everything perfectly for me. Not saying today's top player's wouldn't crush them now, of course they would. But being active very rarely now and then I never feel like I am without a chance against Kaiser, Mitoe or Hazza (although they are of course really good now). The dominance by H2O and Samwise just felt different.

That said, Blackstar, Kaiserklein, Rapha, diarouga and tbh Irishfaithful are imo the best players from the "new Times" in that order in 1v1, while Hazza is probably the best team player ever.


That link to Samwise post is good TBH, First place is Grunt by far. It is cause he has built in micro macro from 10 different games(#1 on most of them) and has this relentless pursue of #1. You dont understand kids. This was his job. Winning WCG was what paid his rent. He did 20-30 games per day when he practiced for WCG, one civ only, one strat only(which would be the best strat for the best civ mirror) and nothing else.

Im pretty sure I had the most of practice games vs him of any1 of western players even tho he stopped practicing with me after my VOD lol.

Anyways, I cant say H20 was #2 cause i will be biased, he never liked me and flamed he HEAVILY after losing vs me countless of times and blaming everything between earth and sun. I just know that during my prime me and Naturephoenix were treating him like a kid and swapped screenshots of his flaming. HOWEVER, after we stopped playing H2o did become GOOD for the WCG where only jap was lamed. BUT 1) Id be biased trying to rank h2o and 2) I never played really much or competitively after that first quit and never touched TAD Civs. Id still place him high cause Samwise places him #2 and I trust his word

About Samwise, I think I missed him "growing up" in the community, but when I came back some years later he was #1, IIRC I did play 1v1's to win some tournaments there but I cant remember practicing a lot with Samwise, I think it was cause Mayhem was a sore loser just like h2o and they kept Samwise away from me but Sam and I still had a connection between us and good friendship. I felt like that whole party had a grudge against me(probably h2o making their opinion of me even before they had actually met me on ESO) I even felt some grudge or bad opinion from GS initially. But yes, Samwise was #1 soilidly that time and that period i KNOW for a fact they had deeper knowledge, more strats and less room for errors than we did in the first years of the game. EXCEPT in TOP CIV MIRRORS. Which sadly, ultimately determined who won the big tournaments and who did not.

Also before I write my list I have to put big emphasis on the fact that it is much harder to rise to top10 when the game is active and when the game is not active.

So my list goes:

Grunt #1
Samwise#2
#3 is pretty much rest of us; Ourk, NP, Cheese, NanoX, Demon, Ravenous, H2o, Mayhem, Parfait, Flooky, RiuT, Luigi and so on. Probably 20 more names in that list. Notice that this was the TOP tier back then. Its just that Grunt has his own tier
#4 Would be good players but not really TOP. GS, Boneng, Kiljardi, Blackstar and so on.

Id just like to ask people to stop write funny names in their top 10 lists. Ive seen shit like Acergame next to my name for some reason. After I had spanked him 10 mirrors he begged for one last to prove his strenght and I VILLAGER RUSHED him and won, so please, refrain from these shit names in your top tier lists.

Also on Japanese players. I had good relationship to them and often got acces to their password protected lobbies. Had lots of experience with them. They were solid players but one or two tiers below my #4 tier. I really loved and LOVE them still but they never grew to their max potential because they kept themselves inside their community and barely played 1v1's vs western players. They do have some honorable names ofcourse, but not near top tier names. There is one name you have written that Im not too familiar with(nagayumi) but the times I played him even with underdog civs vs top civs I beat him easily with good timing pushes or simply cause he had no practice vs my funny stuff on before hand.


After all I have said I will commend todays top players. OVERALL I think you have evolved and are better than we were back then with the exception of Grunt. You are doing an amazing job and youre playing this game on the highest level ive seen but I cant put you in my tier lists due to not much experience with you. I did install this game two years ago I believe and you guys are really good. Mitoe, Hazza, Kaiser, Aiz etc. My hat goes off to you guys. You woulld all, with todays performance be in the top of my top #3 list, on par with Naturephoenix


You mean 3# or 4# as in those todays top players? Just thinking isnt that underrating BS_op quite heavily :D
Boneng and blackstar in the same tier is amusing for me ^^
If you download DE I welcome you to play some games with me and jardi!


Now that Ive seen that link and remembered some names I will make a short update and simplify it

#1 Grunt
2# NP, Starsky, Ruthless(this is where I would put peak Samwise and peak h2o in later years)
3# Rest of us, Id say top25 from 2007 and some solid names from top 50. In this list you can kinda add most "new" players from 2009 and forward in their peak or prime time(aswell if youre at your prime today). Kiljardi probably had a peak when I was gone for many years, cause Kiljardi from 2007 or 08 would not make this list. This is also where I put todays top players, and being a top player actively you should know who you are so im not gonna write names, you wear top player tag with confidence. In this tier most 1v1's are close games and highly competitive, where small mistakes cost games and where treasures of 140f or 95w has insane impact, so we're still talking highest level of gameplay and not some ACERGAME or Victor_Zwedistan level
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India drsingh
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22 Nov 2020, 04:36

Wasnt naturephoenix part of the esoc management team in beginning years? Then became inactive..

This list by definition is subjective. There is no need to reach a consensus.
Should just have a Hall of Fame section somewhere on this website. With all tournament winners and runner ups from all past years, without any ranking or order.

We have ranking of current active players already, and that's all matters. The game skill and depth changes with patches or version etc.
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United States of America SoldieR
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22 Nov 2020, 05:06

NP was not part of ESOC. The last time he played was like 8 years ago.
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Canada Mitoe
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22 Nov 2020, 05:29

drsingh wrote:This list by definition is subjective. There is no need to reach a consensus.
Should just have a Hall of Fame section somewhere on this website. With all tournament winners and runner ups from all past years, without any ranking or order.

https://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=551#p5990
No Flag Peshmerga12
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22 Nov 2020, 11:23

There are plenly of players who deserves to be mentioned as a very good player. Diarouga, Prince and many others. People who rank players after tournament dont know alot imo. For example, Nagayumi imo was easily one of the best players at the game and deserves to be called one of the best players, and in 2015 prince lost 2-3 against him while, diarouga lost 0-4 againt Nagayumi. This goes to show how the seeding is a bigger factors sometimes than actual skill. So judging by tourney dosent always work.

I also do believe Nagayumi was one of the best teamplayer at the game, but also the best player when he was at his peak (not for a very long time). Umeu and musketjr was doing a good post back in the day about this. He lost his motivation against BS_OP after the score was 3-3. No one actually knows how that would have played out if he was playing his best. I mean, monastry as Japan....Come on....
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France [Armag] diarouga
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22 Nov 2020, 11:33

Peshmerga12 wrote:There are plenly of players who deserves to be mentioned as a very good player. Diarouga, Prince and many others. People who rank players after tournament dont know alot imo. For example, Nagayumi imo was easily one of the best players at the game and deserves to be called one of the best players, and in 2015 prince lost 2-3 against him while, diarouga lost 0-4 againt Nagayumi. This goes to show how the seeding is a bigger factors sometimes than actual skill. So judging by tourney dosent always work.

I also do believe Nagayumi was one of the best teamplayer at the game, but also the best player when he was at his peak (not for a very long time). Umeu and musketjr was doing a good post back in the day about this. He lost his motivation against BS_OP after the score was 3-3. No one actually knows how that would have played out if he was playing his best. I mean, monastry as Japan....Come on....

I was pr33 when I played against nagayumi :sad:
Although I think nagayumi is underrated by most top players, I wouldn't put him in tier 1.
No Flag Peshmerga12
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22 Nov 2020, 12:26

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Peshmerga12 wrote:There are plenly of players who deserves to be mentioned as a very good player. Diarouga, Prince and many others. People who rank players after tournament dont know alot imo. For example, Nagayumi imo was easily one of the best players at the game and deserves to be called one of the best players, and in 2015 prince lost 2-3 against him while, diarouga lost 0-4 againt Nagayumi. This goes to show how the seeding is a bigger factors sometimes than actual skill. So judging by tourney dosent always work.

I also do believe Nagayumi was one of the best teamplayer at the game, but also the best player when he was at his peak (not for a very long time). Umeu and musketjr was doing a good post back in the day about this. He lost his motivation against BS_OP after the score was 3-3. No one actually knows how that would have played out if he was playing his best. I mean, monastry as Japan....Come on....

I was pr33 when I played against nagayumi :sad:
Although I think nagayumi is underrated by most top players, I wouldn't put him in tier 1.


Dont understand me wrong. I am not saying that you were bad at the time! :smile:
The guy played in a different leauge.

I would definitely put him i tier 1 when he played his best. He was no "grunt" player ofc but still, we never saw a extremely good jap player, but this dude really delivered for his commuity. Playing such high level. I think Umeu also mention this in one post, but i doubt that anyone could beat Naga in QS, all top players rely on knowing the opponent. And this guy would definitely beat the shit out of anyone who went against him. His understanding of the game is beyond anyone.
Sweden Challe
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22 Nov 2020, 13:46

Before I rest my case on this subject I have to point out what all these lists fail to point out. That is, this game was never really about competition but more about the community. The joy and fulfilment I had and felt 2007-2010 posting all my best game to ageSanctuary was such a blessing. Everyone(99% of the people) was so nice to each other on the forums and on ESO, seeing what has happened with the gaming communities in todays games its a difference like day and night.

We all had a blast those first 5 years and we all shared a lot of love. Sure sometimes it got competitive and our egos clashed but it was on very rare occasions.

I also felt this love in the community when I reinstalled in 2014 again to play 3v3 randoms(which were a blast aswell) and Id do it again but this is the sad part, that when I installed in 2018 the love in the community was almost gone.


So I'd just beg you top players in new generation, without naming names that you understand that you set the tone for the rest of the community and forget about these "best players of all time". Like I wrote in first post you guys manage this game on a higher level than back then but back then was the most active time which means that picking a GOAT should come from that time and all roads lead to Grunt. I'd say theres around 10 players in todays aoe3 that belong in the top tier and like I said earlier, you KNOW if youre in it and the guys in that circle know who is in it and who is not.

So yes, just try to keep a more positive tone and behaviour, try scaling down the childish behaviour and bad loserness and realise that you lead an amazing community thats been out here for a lot of years. I'm telling you, already back in 2007 putting up good and consistent content while having a good behaviour + playing in the top really made one feel fulfilled, you should focus on this instead of ego clashes!
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No Flag fightinfrenchman
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22 Nov 2020, 13:58

I'd literally kill every single person on ESOC if it meant I could go back to 2007 tbh
Sweden Victor_swe
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22 Nov 2020, 15:40

Emcothewise
Dead hunts cant walk....

BrookG - "There is a G in everyone"
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Great Britain Donye
Musketeer
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ESO: Pink Charr

22 Nov 2020, 17:35

I agree with Challe. Age sanctuary community was really good and I haven't really found anything like that since. I've seen quite a few flame wars and personal disputes flaring up publicly already since I came back for DE.
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
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22 Nov 2020, 18:10

Eh, agesanc wasn't exactly the most chill place. Surely not as toxic as gaming nowadays but it had it's own share of disputes and such.
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Brazil look
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22 Nov 2020, 18:47

Garja wrote:Eh, agesanc wasn't exactly the most chill place. Surely not as toxic as gaming nowadays but it had it's own share of disputes and such.


garja did not exist at that time in 2007
Kaiser sucks
Garja Noob
grunt the best
Kickass God
BSOP OP
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India Challenger_Marco
Howdah
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22 Nov 2020, 19:19

Well i would love to put some thoughts ,everyone has their own opinion but we can never form a perfect list but what we can notice is:
Grunt
-Talent:10/10
We definitely not seem him play nowadays but his stats & performance is insane being #1 at both aoe2 & aoe3 is no joke tbh ,having no one guiding you with build orders as of today there is a lot but when the game was fresh ,they had to find it & perform their own build ,being able to learn so quickly (high IQ ?that's arguable ) but this is definitely pure talent imo ,I have not seen anyone like this before.If this guy had played continuously surely would have been a monster but that's just imagination ,I would expect him to perform the same way ,but i did put this guy in top players of all time for sure.

_h2o
-Talent:9/10
I have to give 9 points ,i saw h2o saying grunt was faster no matter what ,but nevertheless another talented player who understand game very quickly,having participated in tourney after WCG with incredible performance we can def rate this guy but it's his busy life unable to see how he performs today ,pretty sure he can perform very well as with 50% of skills hes still brigadier xD,deserves in all time top for sure.

LordRaphael
-Mechanics:10/10

Best Mechanics player I've seen so far (It's iamturk ofcourse),perfect execution also,whenever i see his play it's solid ,I haven't seen him fail miserably hard ,he always give tough to his opponent even though he loses.Best Dutch player ,solid micro ,apm ,I kinda like his raiding skills ,BO is perfect but this guy just knows to adapt to situations ,I've seen him doing clean builds like h2o did with his elephant ones.So this guy with practice is def a monster and hard one to beat,very good tourney results ,hope he comes back and shows the world again.Spot deserved.

Kaiserklein
-Dedication:10/10
-Micro-10/10
-Merc Laming-10/10

"Practice makes a man perfect" that's kaiserklein ,another solid player ,currently #1 ,very good tournament performances recently.His german merc build impresses me because he wins & it's funny that it works but if we try we fail...love that fusilier pulling the cannons out ,def 200iq plays.Solid gameplay with euro civs ,good understanding of the game ,easily a contender for all time list but he has to win 1 major title to get in though unlike the list above who have won ,I def wanna see him expand his civ pool & comfortably play all mus ,plus he showed us he can be a very good anti-water player as in NE game vs kynesie,I look forward for more results.

diarouga
-Strategy/BO:9/10
-Trail/Error method:10/10
-Testing builds/homework:10/10

diarouga feels like upgraded version of me or me as a pro player,I just become confident by testing out builds and can 100% say this x build works against y.I'm giving a 9 coz he said bs_op was best in strategy/BO.Winner of the recent LAN tourney definitely because he practice the mus and reading what his opponent does.Although he wasn't much active but when DE came there was drafting league and he beat Mitoe whom i rate him as #2 in 1v1,This guy has good win rate against Mitoe for some reason there are players who is just anti of other ones.Another strong contender,can def go in top list but need to win 1 major & to rate you.Look forward for interesting builds ,best azzy player nice wc laming xD.

BlackStar_OP
-Strategy/BO:10/10
-Team:(9-10/10)
-Talent:8/10
Was surprising how quickly he learnt in 1 year practicing with veni and dominating performance,was best team player when he played ,good mechanics ,solid in everything ,being able to beat h2o in a close series was huge ,from where he gained fame ,very much all rounder like hazza & very flexible player idk what else to say ,just OP but because of his dominating performance he will be in all time list ,I'm curious to see how he performs if he ever comes back.

nagayumi
-Talent:8/10
This guy is underrated but his tourney run was def strong,this guy has talent because when i looked up the ladder he was just increasing his pr day by day as he played there was nice learning curve i saw ,fastest to learn game as well,but unfortunately stopped playing ,he had some decent runs but however he needs to participate in tournaments and do a good run or win tourney to put him in the list ,has potential.

Samwise12
-Talent (8-9/10)
Idk how to rate samwise though ,being the first one to reach pr52 before that is just solid execution from what i saw from youtube videos back in 2008-10,currently in DE he's #1 he has won a major but i feel hes not at the same level he was before ,he can definitely show hes best by winning upcoming tournaments & beating players out in DE ,this guy has good mechanics which is why he is still high pr.But i want to see his true skills where he specialise at.Contender ,I look forward!

Hazza54321
-Dedication:10/10
-Team:10/10
Best Team player ,his 1v1 playstyle is different but he wins at the end ig because of his good knowledge & mechanics ,has good apm to raid ,he was won the pro division ,I can see hazza becoming best @1v1 & team if he plays 1v1 more ,has good potential since he plays a lot,wanna see him practice 1v1 more ,for the list definitely need 1 or more belts & good results against top players in future.

Garja
-Everything:10/10
He is basically a god no one can beat him in aoe3 #1 all time :P.

Was fun to write,I will update tomorrow with some more players added.
Let me know your thoughts.
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Germany Rohbrot
Howdah
Posts: 1157
ESO: Rohbrot

22 Nov 2020, 19:56

@Challenger_Marco make also a list of meme players ,for fun.
You know its coming but you wont hold it even when you petard my tc, the rohvolt is real.
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United States of America dicktator_
Howdah
EWT
Posts: 1395
ESO: Conquerer999

22 Nov 2020, 20:17

I can only talk about the creation of ESOC forward since I wasn't around or didn't pay attention to sup before that. So 2015-2017 there were three clear standout players imo, _H2O, lordraphael, and bsop. Generally speaking, these players would only drop to each other, and between the three of them they have a ton of golds and silvers in ESOC events.

The rise of Mitoe and Kaiserklein began in 2017 and translated into tournament results in late 2017 for mitoe, with his autumn win, and early 2018 for kaiser with his esoc grand tour playoffs victory (Kaiser became a lot stronger in tournaments once he added twc civs). They would be incredibly consistent in tournaments from then on, usually getting RO4 at least.

In 2019 diarouga earned a spot on the list imo with his NWC victory. Even though it's his only big tournament win it was the biggest Aoe3 tournament in over a decade. Then there was hazza who, even though up to that point didn't really have the results, imo he could do things no other player could do, with raiding, multitasking, army movement in scrappy games etc.. This skillset was a lot more suited for teamgames which is why Hazza dominated team so hard and is imo the GOAT modern team player. Of course everyone knew how good he was and that it was only a matter of time before he would win a 1v1 tournament, which he did in 2020. If you value teamgame dominance at all he definitely deserves a spot on the list, and even if you don't you can still make a reasonable argument imo.

So my list of best players 2015-2020 would be: _H2O, lordraphael, Blackstar_OP, Kaiserklein, Mitoe, diarouga, and Hazza.

Some players who were really close are erik (tournament win autumn 2018), samwise (tournament win summer 2015), and tabben (amazing performance in the LAN). Basically those three had amazing peaks but imo weren't as consistent. Samwise from what I've heard would probably make at least top 5 in any best of all time list but my list is for 2015-2020.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective

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