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Palestine Squamiger
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12 Jan 2021, 22:25

Jotunir wrote:
Squamiger wrote:And they would then also be like their aom Greeks counterpart, the melee goon with a lance whose Greek name I forget

Prodromos.


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Argentina Jotunir
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12 Jan 2021, 22:27

Squamiger wrote:
Jotunir wrote:
Squamiger wrote:And they would then also be like their aom Greeks counterpart, the melee goon with a lance whose Greek name I forget

Prodromos.


Prostagma

Vulome
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Italy gamevideo113
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12 Jan 2021, 23:36

Jotunir wrote:
Squamiger wrote:
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Prostagma

Vulome

Ishwolli
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019

Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
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Argentina Jotunir
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12 Jan 2021, 23:37

gamevideo113 wrote:
Jotunir wrote:
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Vulome

Ishwolli

Kalos
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Germany Rohbrot
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12 Jan 2021, 23:38

gamevideo113 wrote:
Jotunir wrote:
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Vulome

Ishwolli

Zeus hoplits go Brr Brr!
You know its coming but you wont hold it even when you petard my tc, the rohvolt is real.
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Argentina Jotunir
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12 Jan 2021, 23:39

Rohbrot wrote:
gamevideo113 wrote:
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Ishwolli

Zeus hoplits go Brr Brr!

I actually did that to a friend from highschool :lol:
(a long time ago)
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Italy gamevideo113
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12 Jan 2021, 23:56

Etimos
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019

Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
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Argentina Jotunir
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12 Jan 2021, 23:59

Rohbrot wrote:
gamevideo113 wrote:
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Ishwolli

Zeus hoplits go Brr Brr!

gamevideo113 wrote:Etimos

Orthos
France Kaiserklein
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13 Jan 2021, 01:00

Rods definitely don't have "1 job". Actually they're one of the more versatile units. They're not just anti cav, they're so fast they can catch RI, or HI to some extent. They can push goons back. They can z-move cannons too.

They're pretty strong, and if you give them a multiplier vs HI they just become OP.
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13 Jan 2021, 08:00

Kaiserklein - killing the fun with facts since 2015.
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Palestine Squamiger
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13 Jan 2021, 08:24

Skiieeepan
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Indonesia arivus
Crossbow
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13 Jan 2021, 08:57

I don't know about adding HI multiplier for Rods, but I'm against giving Changdao multiplier vs HI as I believe Chu Ko Nu and Arque already deal well vs HI. Adding 0.25-0.5 more bonus vs cavalry for both unit on the other hand :devil:

Also Intoyou
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Zimbabwe 88_Baron_Rojo_88
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13 Jan 2021, 09:18

In my personal opinion, the only solution to the problem that the guy exposes at the beginning of the topic would be to decrease the bonus multiplier against cavalry and raise the base attack so that it would be more efficient against other heavy infantry units. According to the cost in resources compared to a musketeer in theory it should be better than the musketeer, but here is the problem that the rodelero, like the lancer, are specific units and you have to take into account other factors such as resistance in combat and speed. As they say, we don't need any more anti-infantry units. The only thing that maybe I see weaker than it should be counting that it is heavy infantry and its cost in resources are low HP, but to raise them this would have to be tested well, because can break the game , it is not as simple as balancing other more standard heavy infantry.

Also add that in team games the problem is not only the rodelero, it is that the melee units are not so useful in most cases as there is so much mass of rank units compared to 1vs1 and that is the strong of Spain, its melee units ... is a reason why it is not used so much in teamgames, besides that the lancers get bugged and do not attack when there is a lot of mass of units or lag lol
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Argentina Jotunir
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13 Jan 2021, 13:58

arivus wrote:Also Intoyou

Taiyoh
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Brazil Luciofrancosi
Skirmisher
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13 Jan 2021, 14:23

To be fair I think the unit overall is fine.
They are not the best on their own. But they complement other units really well.
Rod/lancer for example is a really scary combo right now.
Most civs won't even use musketeers after age 3 anyway and the ones that rely on HI as anti cav will still have to deal with lancers and skirms
"Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting"

Sun Tzu - The art of war
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Argentina Jotunir
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14 Jan 2021, 11:00

Luciofrancosi wrote:To be fair I think the unit overall is fine.
They are not the best on their own. But they complement other units really well.
Rod/lancer for example is a really scary combo right now.
Most civs won't even use musketeers after age 3 anyway and the ones that rely on HI as anti cav will still have to deal with lancers and skirms

Still Rods seem weak, fast but frail. And people use HI after age 3. For example, I almost always use the Stadhoulders from the church card if the game goes past age 3.
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Brazil Luciofrancosi
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14 Jan 2021, 16:13

Jotunir wrote:
Luciofrancosi wrote:To be fair I think the unit overall is fine.
They are not the best on their own. But they complement other units really well.
Rod/lancer for example is a really scary combo right now.
Most civs won't even use musketeers after age 3 anyway and the ones that rely on HI as anti cav will still have to deal with lancers and skirms

Still Rods seem weak, fast but frail. And people use HI after age 3. For example, I almost always use the Stadhoulders from the church card if the game goes past age 3.

It depends.
On dutch case stadhouders come already upgraded and are good complementary units, specially if you add artillery, however they still die to skirms, and if they are gone you can't train them anymore.
And spain on late game is quite strong right now, specially with unction. Buffing the unit right now is probably a very dangerous move as it could make the civ op.
"Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting"

Sun Tzu - The art of war
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Japan SquidTheSid
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Location: Duber

14 Jan 2021, 23:05

I've been talking to dansil92 about it, but what if we turned Rods into melee skirms and Lancers into melee goons? It'd be a bit more historically accurate, and it would give Spain a unique melee "skirm/goon" comp. This would help compensate for the lack of existing skirmisher/dragoon shipments for Spain and make their Hussars stand out more from Lancers.
Vietnam Hazza54321
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14 Jan 2021, 23:09

sigh
No Flag helln00
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14 Jan 2021, 23:47

if you guys want to buff rods against infantry, why not just buff their melee resist?
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Germany Rohbrot
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15 Jan 2021, 00:09

helln00 wrote:if you guys want to buff rods against infantry, why not just buff their melee resist?

Cuz its already 40% what is pretty good.
You know its coming but you wont hold it even when you petard my tc, the rohvolt is real.
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Argentina Jotunir
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Posts: 547
Location: Argentina

15 Jan 2021, 00:11

Luciofrancosi wrote:
Jotunir wrote:
Luciofrancosi wrote:To be fair I think the unit overall is fine.
They are not the best on their own. But they complement other units really well.
Rod/lancer for example is a really scary combo right now.
Most civs won't even use musketeers after age 3 anyway and the ones that rely on HI as anti cav will still have to deal with lancers and skirms

Still Rods seem weak, fast but frail. And people use HI after age 3. For example, I almost always use the Stadhoulders from the church card if the game goes past age 3.

It depends.
On dutch case stadhouders come already upgraded and are good complementary units, specially if you add artillery, however they still die to skirms, and if they are gone you can't train them anymore.
And spain on late game is quite strong right now, specially with unction. Buffing the unit right now is probably a very dangerous move as it could make the civ op.

Well, usually what I do apart from complementing with artillery is to send infinite fusilier shipments and halberdiers to replace the losses. Generally the enemy colapses from the sheer weight of the stadhoulders + artillery push and the game is over. Yes, skirms can be a problem but you obliterate them with cannon fire or melee cavalry (hussars or a merc cavalry)
No Flag helln00
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15 Jan 2021, 01:19

Rohbrot wrote:
helln00 wrote:if you guys want to buff rods against infantry, why not just buff their melee resist?

Cuz its already 40% what is pretty good.


but apparently its not good enough if the thread is to be believed, just make them fast teutonic knights and make aoe2 players jealous
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Germany Rohbrot
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15 Jan 2021, 01:35

helln00 wrote:
Rohbrot wrote:
helln00 wrote:if you guys want to buff rods against infantry, why not just buff their melee resist?

Cuz its already 40% what is pretty good.


but apparently its not good enough if the thread is to be believed, just make them fast teutonic knights and make aoe2 players jealous

The thread is actually about "how can we make rods more effective against HI" if you read the posts and increasing melee resist isnt a solution.
You know its coming but you wont hold it even when you petard my tc, the rohvolt is real.
No Flag helln00
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15 Jan 2021, 01:42

Rohbrot wrote:
helln00 wrote:
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but apparently its not good enough if the thread is to be believed, just make them fast teutonic knights and make aoe2 players jealous

The thread is actually about "how can we make rods more effective against HI" if you read the posts and increasing melee resist isnt a solution.


I guess I want them to be vulnerable against range units so thats just a different opinion. though if its musks that people are worried about then melee resist still matters cause u want them to charge in and force musks into melee. another thing you can do is decrease their collision box like what happened with steppe riders to allow them to slip into enemy formations and force melee combat

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