Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
ESO: Jerom_

06 Apr 2016, 19:37

It's lame in the actual sense of the word lame rather than the gaming sense of the word. But ruyters are also just shittier than goons.
Palestine Mimsy for President
Jaeger
Posts: 3680

06 Apr 2016, 20:12

Not enough to judge them. Cossacks are shittier than hussars as well (stats-wise) but...
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

06 Apr 2016, 21:18

Jerom wrote:It's lame in the actual sense of the word lame rather than the gaming sense of the word. But ruyters are also just shittier than goons.

I'm not at all sure of this.
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
ESO: Jerom_

06 Apr 2016, 21:37

zoom wrote:
Jerom wrote:It's lame in the actual sense of the word lame rather than the gaming sense of the word. But ruyters are also just shittier than goons.

I'm not at all sure of this.

unit, attack per cost, hitpoints per cost, ranged hitpoints per cost
goon, 0.101111, 0.933333, 1.33333
ruyter, 0.0995556, 1.04533, 1.16148

Not taking into account the fact that weaker units suffer more from loss in attack power (my rough calculations seem to imply that 20% less hp means you get 10% less dps on a unit, so the effective goon attack might be even higher), although overkill is a thing. Also not taking into account that ruyters just clog up your stable which is incredibly annoying.
User avatar
Austria KINGofOsmane
Pro Player
EPL Reigning Champs
Posts: 3047
ESO: KINGofOsmane
Location: Walling Town

06 Apr 2016, 21:43

dont discuss with garja hes top 3...
"Losing to Callen was the worst night of my life" Gibthedurrty 2019
"If hazza can get pr42 with team i can get pr50 with 1v1" Gibthedurrty 2018
Lecastete wrote: So what are we gonna do now? We are done.
me and Tete losing 1:16 in cs:go
User avatar
France benj89
Howdah
Posts: 1508

06 Apr 2016, 21:45

tbh overkill is not just a thing, it's huge especially when you consider that most players micro with x and target no more than 3-4 ruyts while shooting with 40lb
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
ESO: Jerom_

06 Apr 2016, 22:11

benj89 wrote:tbh overkill is not just a thing, it's huge especially when you consider that most players micro with x and target no more than 3-4 ruyts while shooting with 40lb

The attack loss is probably larger tbh. That effect is actually huge in this case. It means ruyters have like 20% less attack than they seem to have.
United States of America cedarfarms
Dragoon
Posts: 237
ESO: Cedar_farms_

06 Apr 2016, 22:55

I just dont understand why everyone flames garja, and i find it pretty funny that most the people who start the flaming like on this thread, are the same people who reap the benefits of all the maps garja made. The maps he made on his own time, solely just to improve everyone in the communitys aoe experience.
And even worse, flaming him because he says schooners is viable on great lakes lol, thats a pretty safe statement to make. Great lakes might not have whales, but there are always a very heavy amount of fish. I just checked in a 1v1 game, and there are 10 little groupings of fish, each with 3 gather points. Thats 15,000 food. How is that not worth it? Thats not 5 boats, 15000 food can keep 30 boats busy for sometime. Fishing ships base rate is .67 food per second. Thats roughly 22,000 villager seconds i believe, thats not worth it at all.
User avatar
Tuvalu gibson
Ninja
Posts: 11926
Location: USA

06 Apr 2016, 23:11

cedarfarms wrote:I just dont understand why everyone flames garja, and i find it pretty funny that most the people who start the flaming like on this thread, are the same people who reap the benefits of all the maps garja made. The maps he made on his own time, solely just to improve everyone in the communitys aoe experience.
And even worse, flaming him because he says schooners is viable on great lakes lol, thats a pretty safe statement to make. Great lakes might not have whales, but there are always a very heavy amount of fish. I just checked in a 1v1 game, and there are 10 little groupings of fish, each with 3 gather points. Thats 15,000 food. How is that not worth it? Thats not 5 boats, 15000 food can keep 30 boats busy for sometime. Fishing ships base rate is .67 food per second. Thats roughly 22,000 villager seconds i believe, thats not worth it at all.

Straight up now tell me are you really gonna love me forever or are you just havin fun!?!?
United States of America cedarfarms
Dragoon
Posts: 237
ESO: Cedar_farms_

06 Apr 2016, 23:13

this is no hit and run gibz
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10043
ESO: Pezet
Location: Poland

07 Apr 2016, 14:14

Sure, but can Garja say anything and be perfectly fine because he made maps? Of course I'm against flaming anyone, but I don't think that things work this way...
After all... :?
User avatar
Germany tilanus
Retired Contributor
Posts: 278

07 Apr 2016, 15:21

iNcog wrote:
Jerom wrote:
tilanus wrote:Ruyters work pretty well from a technical point of view if you know how not to overkill and micro with them. A 1pop dragoon with worse stats is a nice idea, but apart from that Ruyters are just stupid units, just like there are many stupid units in AoE3. Their plain name translates to "Rider" and it's a reference to the actually German historical "Reiters", which were so successful they became the role model cavalrymen of the 17th century. Their royal guard upgrade "Carabineers" refers to the elite Karabiniers. Are the shitty Ruyter stats appropriate to display that? I don't think so.

This unit is so unrelated to Dutch history because ES with their type case design only wanted to force that fancy unit idea of a 1pop cavalryman. In the next version of NE Dutchies will eventually get Dragoons. (RIP Ruyter) :ugeek:

Ruyter might not refer to german reiters though in the sense that ruyter is dutch for rider aswell. But yeah, gamedesign matters more in the end I guess. Itd have been better the other way around. For dutch's special unit to be a weaker but cheaper thing is kinda lame.


<_< u mad cuz u dutch

Nah, mad cuz I care bout semantics and narration. I'm german btw.
Napoleonic Era Project Leader

Image
** Support me to support NE **

Test your Age of Empires knowledge in my
Grand Age of Empires quiz! :kinggreen:
No Flag iNcog
Ninja
Posts: 12025

07 Apr 2016, 15:39

I was talking to Jerom, also it was a joke.

I agree with the general gist of your post, otherwise.
Palestine Mimsy for President
Jaeger
Posts: 3680

07 Apr 2016, 15:47

tilanus wrote:
iNcog wrote:
Show hidden quotes


<_< u mad cuz u dutch

Nah, mad cuz I care bout semantics and narration. I'm german btw.
Calm down Jürgen, it was intended for Jerom.
User avatar
Argentina Jotunir
Lancer
Posts: 547
Location: Argentina

13 Jan 2021, 03:47

Are they lame though?
User avatar
Germany Rohbrot
Howdah
Posts: 1640
ESO: Rohbrot

13 Jan 2021, 03:56

Jotunir wrote:Are they lame though?

5 years bump, like it.
You know its coming but you wont hold it even when you petard my tc, the rohvolt is real.
User avatar
Argentina Jotunir
Lancer
Posts: 547
Location: Argentina

13 Jan 2021, 14:19

I still think that ryuters are actually better than Dragoons, Poita made a good argument about that in aoe3 heaven:

"I've been hearing a lot lately that Ruyters are nothing compared to Dragoons (I've even heard that they are the worst unit in the game!) so I'm just going to present a few facts in the form of a comparison to dragoons.

Dragoons = 90f + 90g (180 res)
Ruyters = 30f + 75g (105 res) (I know what you're thinking but I'll get to this later)

Cost ratio = 1.71

HP/cost (=Melee HP/cost)
Dragoons = 1.11
Ruyters = 1.33 (20% more)

Ranged HP/cost
Dragoons = 1.59 (7% more)
Ruyters = 1.48

Ranged damage/cost
Dragoons = 0.122
Ruyters = 0.133 (9% more)

Melee damage/cost
Dragoons = 0.0611
Ruyters = 0.0667 (9% more)

Dragoons and ruyters both fire one shot every 3 seconds, travel the same speed, same attack bonuses, same range and are countered by the same units. Dragoons have 1 more line of sight but take up double population space and take 7 more seconds to build.

These are the facts in summary:
Ruyters do 9% more damage (both ranged and melee)
Ruyters last 20% longer in melee
Ruyters take up half the population space
Dragoons last 7% longer at range
Dragoons have 1 more line of sight (15 compared to 14)

I think the 9% damage at least cancels out the 7% less ranged HP if not increases on it. Ruyters obviously win on a population basis and I don't think anyone would really care about 1 more line of sight for dragoons.

Now I'm sure you're all saying "But ruyters cost more than dragoons because they cost more gold". Remember now that gold gathers 15% faster for Dutch and that's not to mention that gold is a very easy resource for the Dutch to collect due to banks. Your dragoons using civs will have to be concentrating on map control or resorting to plantations to continue dragoon production.

Interpret this information as you will, but I think it's time to stop neglecting Ruyters as an effective unit since they are at least as good as Dragoons if not better. There is plenty of room for debate on the 'gold factor' of Ruyters so it's difficult to come up with an accurate comparison."
Vietnam Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 7556
ESO: PrinceofBabu

13 Jan 2021, 14:25

Lol this thread
User avatar
Argentina Jotunir
Lancer
Posts: 547
Location: Argentina

13 Jan 2021, 14:42

I prefer to use black riders though, those mercs are beasts. :devil:
User avatar
Italy gamevideo113
Howdah
Posts: 1868
ESO: gamevideo113

13 Jan 2021, 14:48

ruyters are fine, goons are fine
/thread ez
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019

Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
User avatar
Germany Rohbrot
Howdah
Posts: 1640
ESO: Rohbrot

13 Jan 2021, 14:51

Hazza54321 wrote:Lol this thread

The creator of the thread says this ;)
You know its coming but you wont hold it even when you petard my tc, the rohvolt is real.
User avatar
France chronique
Advanced Player
Posts: 1837
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

13 Jan 2021, 15:37

pls nerf ruyters, too strong vs falc
User avatar
Argentina Jotunir
Lancer
Posts: 547
Location: Argentina

13 Jan 2021, 18:03

chronique wrote:pls nerf ruyters, too strong vs falc

:lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
Argentina Jets
Skirmisher
Posts: 163
ESO: SsJetstream

16 Jan 2021, 16:42

Well, considering how monstrously fast dutch can get their coin, ruyters are so cheap and easy to spam, you all have played against a 25 ruyters running around, increasing in mass every minute. Just make them cost 2pop, by the time dutch is age3 and massing cav, they can pretty easily buy wood at the market, balancing the issues mentioned before too.
User avatar
Argentina Jotunir
Lancer
Posts: 547
Location: Argentina

16 Jan 2021, 17:21

Jets wrote:Well, considering how monstrously fast dutch can get their coin, ruyters are so cheap and easy to spam, you all have played against a 25 ruyters running around, increasing in mass every minute. Just make them cost 2pop, by the time dutch is age3 and massing cav, they can pretty easily buy wood at the market, balancing the issues mentioned before too.


The only good thing about Ruyters besides the cost is that they only occupy 1 pop space each, removing that advantage would make them almost useless.

Forum Info

Return to “General”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest