Indonesian Revolt Feels Weak and Out of Place

[Nojirex]

With the release of the Definitive Edition, more revolution nations were introduced. In addition, the revolution was reworked so that there is a possibility of training settlers for most of revolted nations. Indonesia was nation from Asia that they added. It is available for Dutch and Portuguese. However, it seems a little bit anachronistic.

First of all, Indonesia didn't exist until 27 December 1949, where the Netherlands recognized its independence. Second of all, Indonesia consisted of several different kingdoms with different cultures, languages, and religions that had different relationships with the Dutch. Some cooperated with Dutch and their men joined their army, some were defeated quickly, and some fought hard battles and didn't become colonized until 20th century.

Their capital city is located in Yogyakarta, which doesn't make any sense , since the Capital was in Jakarta, which was called Batavia by Dutch. In addition, The flag was also based on Majapahit Empire. The empire has been long gone since 16th century, long time before Europeans arrived. Instead of revolting as Indonesia I think it would be more accurate to revolt as Aceh, as they didn't become colonized until 1904.

There are several effects when revolting to Indonesia as seen in the descriptions:
-Four Cetbang Cannons appear at the Home City shipment point, which can be trained at Artillery Foundries, Forts, Galleons/Fluyts, and Wokou Junks.

-Settlers become Javanese Spearmen, which can be trained at Barracks, Forts, Galleons/Fluyts, and Wokou Junks.

-Wokou Junks can be trained at Docks and train the same units as Galleons/Fluyts.
Home City Cards.

Javanese spearmen just suck, period. They only have melee attack of 8. They also can't be upgraded by both of the Portuguese and Dutch Home City Cards except using "Dutch Infantry HP". Being a heavy infantry, they get countered by skirmishers, archers, and artilleries. Just for comparison, a settler with blunderbuss and great coat has 11 melee attack and 203 hitpoints. My suggestion to buff this unit would be to change the unit tag to Shock Infantry. It makes sense since they don't seem to wear any armor and they already have ranged resist. They will act as rattan shield on RE, cannon fodder and meatshield for stronger units.

Cetbang cannons are decent for their population and cost, but they have wrong animations. They are supposed to reload the cannon from the breech, not the muzzle. They need to be reskinned to be more historically accurate. Here's the actual cetbang cannon in real life
https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetbang

Wokou Junks just cannot compete with European ships. I also don't understand why they were added since they were Japanese ships. I would like it be replaced with a new boat like Jong, Prau, Lancaran, or other Indonesian ships instead. It seems that the developers were lazy with it, they just took an existing boat from Asia and called it a day.

Sufi Support shipments need so many shipments before they become worth it, I would change the shipment so it will also deliver 1 War Elephant.

I would like those changes because right now If I played Dutch I would revolt to SA, since it is better 99% of the time. If I play Portuguese I could revolt to Peru or Brazil, in which both were way better.

[arivus]

Indonesia, Barbary, Finland and Canada are all offer lackluster benefits compared to aging to Imperial. For Indonesia they're meant for all in push, as the main benefits of choosing this option is to get 4 cannon. If the push failed there will never be a time when they can compete militarily to other age4 or 5 power.

The javanese spearman also a joke unit as in terms of HP is equal to age3 Halbs, and damage is equal to age 2 pikeman. Their ranged resist also don't offer much protection compared to both Dutch and Ports Guard Halberdier.

Cetbang Cannon in the other hand is quite good for 2 pop artillery that have 3.0 rof which is equal to other skirmisher and are cheap too for 100w 200g. They deal 165 damage vs infantry at 26 range but still out dps by 2 cassador or dutch skirmisher.

[Peachrocks]

Finland does have the ability to build ‘villagers/guard skirmishers’ in batches of 5 at infantry training speed as well infinite crate resource shipments that don’t have to be gathered if you ship dominions beforehand but it’s not worth paying 3000 res for and another 1200 for guard upgrade. The only other revolt that gets guard units for its transformation units is Columbia which comes with a speed penalty.

Really outside of South Africa in all but very niche situations none of them are worth it. Mostly because of the all in nature and denying Imperial. Shame because some of them have potentially interesting concepts. Canada with bears and natives, Mexico with very strong skirmishers, Brazil getting legendary natives and melee capable Dragoons (though I’d argue the auto spawn weak revolutionaries are a drawback not an advantage due them still costing one population), America with forts and volunteers, Barbary with lots of units with bonuses on vills and so on.

It’s all potentially fun and engaging but isn’t viable at all outside of all ins because economy stop and no Imperial. Indonesia is no different. The cannon animation and look is basically retaken from flaming arrows yeah? Javanese spears are literally age 2 pikes and are way worse then revolutionaries.

Only remotely viable revolts are South Africa, Argentina, Chile and Peru. Mexico as fringe cases but it’s Spain only who also get Peru, Chile and Argentina. Hungary if you can pull it off is rather good with 100% HP Hussars but you need towers to get any units out of the revolt itself aside from the villagers.

[JKProwler]

I don't want revolts to be too viable that it becomes standard build in a lot of matches. I prefer them as a niche