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Should the Argentines be a Revolutionary or European civilization?

Revolutionary
14
52%
European
1
4%
01000111 01100001 01110010 01101010 01100001
12
44%
 
Total votes: 27

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Malawi princeofcarthage
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07 Apr 2021, 12:50

You need a history lesson. There is no "giving back". Islands were never Argentine except for short period of time during 1816-1833 when islands were left uninhabited by Europeans but they never gave up territorial claims. Referendum also overwhelmingly proved that islanders wanted to stay under British rule. Just because a chunk of land is close to you, it doesn't automatically grant you sovereignty over it.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Argentina Jotunir
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07 Apr 2021, 13:21

princeofcarthage wrote:You need a history lesson. There is no "giving back". Islands were never Argentine except for short period of time during 1816-1833 when islands were left uninhabited by Europeans but they never gave up territorial claims. Referendum also overwhelmingly proved that islanders wanted to stay under British rule. Just because a chunk of land is close to you, it doesn't automatically grant you sovereignty over it.

I know my history thank you very much. I suggest you keep your arrogance in check.
Those "islanders" are british colonists so of course they want to remain under British rule...
That does not mean the land belongs to them.

This is a highly controversial topic so I suggest that we stop talking about it and focus on the topic of this thread.
I hope you have a nice day :flowers:
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Great Britain Riotcoke
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07 Apr 2021, 14:04

Jotunir wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:You need a history lesson. There is no "giving back". Islands were never Argentine except for short period of time during 1816-1833 when islands were left uninhabited by Europeans but they never gave up territorial claims. Referendum also overwhelmingly proved that islanders wanted to stay under British rule. Just because a chunk of land is close to you, it doesn't automatically grant you sovereignty over it.

I know my history thank you very much. I suggest you keep your arrogance in check.
Those "islanders" are british colonists so of course they want to remain under British rule...
That does not mean the land belongs to them.

This is a highly controversial topic so I suggest that we stop talking about it and focus on the topic of this thread.
I hope you have a nice day :flowers:

Why would it belong to you, being close to something doesn't mean it's yours. And 'highly controversial' means it's controversial with the one country that deems it's theirs, whilst the vast majority of the modern world belives in self determination.
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Great Britain Riotcoke
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07 Apr 2021, 14:05

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twitch.tv/stangoesdeepTV
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Great Britain Riotcoke
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07 Apr 2021, 14:06

Here's the shit argentina pumps out about this shit.
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Latvia harcha
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07 Apr 2021, 14:11

@Jotunir don't you think the people there should have the say what rule they wish? Or do you just want to annex these people?
princeofcarthage wrote:remember Prince warned about it years ago
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Malawi princeofcarthage
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07 Apr 2021, 15:51

Jotunir wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:You need a history lesson. There is no "giving back". Islands were never Argentine except for short period of time during 1816-1833 when islands were left uninhabited by Europeans but they never gave up territorial claims. Referendum also overwhelmingly proved that islanders wanted to stay under British rule. Just because a chunk of land is close to you, it doesn't automatically grant you sovereignty over it.

I know my history thank you very much.
Clearly you don't

I suggest you keep your arrogance in check.
How am I arrogant?

Those "islanders" are british colonists so of course they want to remain under British rule...
Yeah well, that island was uninhabited before those islanders settled, it is not like the killed the native populace or drove the argentine's (by the way which didn't even exist back then) away from the island and claimed it for themselves.

That does not mean the land belongs to them.
It technically does.

This is a highly controversial topic so I suggest that we stop talking about it and focus on the topic of this thread.
There is nothing controversial about this. Buenos Aires tried to steal/claim the lands when French, British and Spanish left in 1816 but failed to occupy/annex it and ultimately British took it back in 1833 (which was theirs anyhow) Barring these ~15-20 years and few months during the war, neither Argentina nor its predecessors held the land at any point. There is no claim here.


I hope you have a nice day :flowers:
You too
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
Vietnam duckzilla
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Posts: 1609

07 Apr 2021, 16:09

  • be @EliteRifleman
  • open a thread asking whether Ottomans should be Asian
  • thread fills with propaganda and hate speech
  • open new thread to distract from the original one
  • take a random topic like Argentina
  • people start talking about falkland war and post propaganda
...
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra?
Ceterum censeo Norvegiam habet participes eius divitiis pauperes in hoc mundo.
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Romania Dolan
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07 Apr 2021, 16:37

Where was the hate speech in the Otto thread :huh:
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Argentina Jotunir
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Posts: 825
Location: Argentina

07 Apr 2021, 18:37

Riotcoke wrote:Here's the shit argentina pumps out about this shit.

@Riotcoke, I do not believe that shit, that is propaganda for morons.
I do not tolerate your insolence.
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Argentina Jotunir
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Posts: 825
Location: Argentina

07 Apr 2021, 18:48

princeofcarthage wrote:
Jotunir wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:You need a history lesson. There is no "giving back". Islands were never Argentine except for short period of time during 1816-1833 when islands were left uninhabited by Europeans but they never gave up territorial claims. Referendum also overwhelmingly proved that islanders wanted to stay under British rule. Just because a chunk of land is close to you, it doesn't automatically grant you sovereignty over it.

I know my history thank you very much.
Clearly you don't

I suggest you keep your arrogance in check.
How am I arrogant?

Those "islanders" are british colonists so of course they want to remain under British rule...
Yeah well, that island was uninhabited before those islanders settled, it is not like the killed the native populace or drove the argentine's (by the way which didn't even exist back then) away from the island and claimed it for themselves.

That does not mean the land belongs to them.
It technically does.

This is a highly controversial topic so I suggest that we stop talking about it and focus on the topic of this thread.
There is nothing controversial about this. Buenos Aires tried to steal/claim the lands when French, British and Spanish left in 1816 but failed to occupy/annex it and ultimately British took it back in 1833 (which was theirs anyhow) Barring these ~15-20 years and few months during the war, neither Argentina nor its predecessors held the land at any point. There is no claim here.


I hope you have a nice day :flowers:
You too

We may have different points of view, but that does not imply that I do not know history. The fact that you say so makes you an arrogant fool.
Great Britain InsectPoison
Lancer
Posts: 809

07 Apr 2021, 18:51

Jotunir wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:
Peachrocks wrote:The thing i find amusing about this is that yeah, Britain rightfully has the Falklands and it’ll likely hold onto it for the foreseeable future. However once (if lol) Queen Elizabeth dies? It’s likely it’s going to lose a whole lot more.

So my advice? Be very careful about throwing stones. :flowers:

UK actually agreed to a discussion about Falkland islands when decolonization was the trend before the war. However after the war UK made it clear that any discussion is now off the table, Falkland islands are UK territory, and granted british citizenship to them.

Please stop talking about the war, it will only stir up controversy. You have to take into account that Argentina at the time was ruled by a military government. Our de facto military leaders at the time intended the war to be a distraction to stay in power for a longer period and thought wrongly that England was not going to retaliate, because they had misplaced confidence in their alliance with the USA (Their secret masters who betrayed them, I advice you to read about "Operation Condor").

My point is that if they do not want to give us back the Islands now that we have been free from any kind of military dictatorship for quite some time and at peace with them, It just shows their true colours. They use them to extract resources from our homeland, that is the real reason why they won’t give them back any time soon.

The education system in Argentina is a failure if this is what you believe. When Europeans came to the Falklands it was an uninhabited Island. It was first claimed by the French in 1766 but was then transferred over to the UK in 1771 from Spain. The UK has had the Falklands ever since. Now tell me, what claim does Argentina have to the Falkland Islands? The people are all British and they do not want to join Argentina. Argentina has 0 right to the Falklands. No amount of screeching is going to change that. Is there a problem with settlers colonising a completely empty and uninhabited island?
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Argentina Jotunir
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07 Apr 2021, 18:57

InsectPoison wrote:
Jotunir wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Please stop talking about the war, it will only stir up controversy. You have to take into account that Argentina at the time was ruled by a military government. Our de facto military leaders at the time intended the war to be a distraction to stay in power for a longer period and thought wrongly that England was not going to retaliate, because they had misplaced confidence in their alliance with the USA (Their secret masters who betrayed them, I advice you to read about "Operation Condor").

My point is that if they do not want to give us back the Islands now that we have been free from any kind of military dictatorship for quite some time and at peace with them, It just shows their true colours. They use them to extract resources from our homeland, that is the real reason why they won’t give them back any time soon.

The education system in Argentina is a failure if this is what you believe. When Europeans came to the Falklands it was an uninhabited Island. It was first claimed by the French in 1766 but was then transferred over to the UK in 1771 from Spain. The UK has had the Falklands ever since. Now tell me, what claim does Argentina have to the Falkland Islands? The people are all British and they do not want to join Argentina. Argentina has 0 right to the Falklands. No amount of screeching is going to change that.

Sovereignty of the islands was transferred to Argentina from Spain upon independence in 1816, a principle known as uti possidetis juris.

The establishment of British de facto rule on the Falklands in 1833 was illegal under international law, and this has been noted and protested by Argentina on 17 June 1833 and repeated in 1841, 1849, 1884, 1888, 1908, 1927, 1933, 1946, and yearly thereafter in the UN.

The principle of self-determination is not applicable since the current inhabitants are not aboriginal and were brought to replace the Argentine population.

The principle of self-determination does not apply to this sovereignty question because, the current inhabitants are a "transplanted population", of British character and nationality, not a distinct "people" as required by external self-determination doctrine.
That self-determination is further rendered inapplicable due to the disruption of the territorial integrity of Argentina that began with a forceful removal of its authorities in the islands in 1833, thus there is a failure to comply with an explicit requirement of UN Resolution 1514.

The UN ratified this inapplicability of self-determination when the Assembly rejected proposals to condition sovereignty on the wishes of the islanders.

Also, Great Britain was looking to extend its territories in the Americas as shown with the British invasions of the Río de la Plata years earlier which failed.
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Great Britain InsectPoison
Lancer
Posts: 809

07 Apr 2021, 19:03

Well done, your own infographic proves my point. Argentina held the islands for a short period of time between 1815-1830 and even that occupation was illegal as it was still claimed by the UK as per the handover from Spain in 1771. Rightfully we got what was ours back. You are complaining that your backwards country didn't annex a territory that didn't even belong to it.
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Malawi princeofcarthage
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08 Apr 2021, 11:31

Jotunir wrote:
InsectPoison wrote:
Show hidden quotes

The education system in Argentina is a failure if this is what you believe. When Europeans came to the Falklands it was an uninhabited Island. It was first claimed by the French in 1766 but was then transferred over to the UK in 1771 from Spain. The UK has had the Falklands ever since. Now tell me, what claim does Argentina have to the Falkland Islands? The people are all British and they do not want to join Argentina. Argentina has 0 right to the Falklands. No amount of screeching is going to change that.


The principle of self-determination is not applicable since the current inhabitants are not aboriginal and were brought to replace the Argentine population.
"Replace" Mate when British came Argentina didn't exist. There was no populace on the land.

The principle of self-determination does not apply to this sovereignty question because, the current inhabitants are a "transplanted population", of British character and nationality, not a distinct "people" as required by external self-determination doctrine.

Except the people are not transplanted. They settled.

That self-determination is further rendered inapplicable due to the disruption of the territorial integrity of Argentina that began with a forceful removal of its authorities in the islands in 1833, thus there is a failure to comply with an explicit requirement of UN Resolution 1514.
United nation didn't exist back then. Buenos Aires tried to snatch the lands. British simply took what was theirs back.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Spain Snuden
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08 Apr 2021, 11:49

UN resolution 1514 does not refer to the year 1514.
Kek
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Malawi princeofcarthage
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08 Apr 2021, 12:46

Obviously I am aware of that, my point is UN resolutions for 200 years old dispute should not be relevant. *I don't know the resolution 1514 so don't know if it allows for previous resolutions.
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No Flag RefluxSemantic
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08 Apr 2021, 14:53

This may be a bit controversial but I think we should just accept the way borders are right now and stop all discussion unless its democratic referenda. The wars over borders will not bring any good to this world. Even if the situation is a bit messy (not the case with Falkland islands though, but for example with Gibraltar), it'd be nice if we just accepted things for what they are and move on.
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