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No Flag Squamiger
Howdah
Posts: 1235
ESO: Squamiger

19 Jul 2021, 19:48

I just wanted to compile this list mainly for my own sake, as a reference to become more familiar with what the native minor civs get you with trading posts, and since other lists make you click through different civs and many pages to find the info you want. I wanted to be able to see it all at once. But instead of making it a word document I figured I would post it here. I may add detail on units, but really in a 1v1 you so rarely want to train units from nat tps. Instead, their main value is for their technologies, which are easy to overlook but which can be quite powerful.

All these techs basically cost between 100-500 res, so I didn't bother listing their costs. If you want to make a build that features really tight macro to get one of these techs, I imagine you can look it up yourself. Normally I find myself getting a nat tp in mid-late fortress when it looks like the game is a stalemate and is going to go into later stages, so I generally don't think much about the resource costs.

I've commented on some of the techs that seem truly worth it and even OP, to me. Let me know if I've missed anything or if anything is out of date.

I've also listed which maps of the 1v1 standard map quicksearch map pool have which natives. Nootka and Klamath are not currently available on any of the 1v1 maps in quick search. Sufi, Shaolin, and Comanche are the most numerous natives, featuring on 3 maps each. Udasi, Navajo, Maya, Jesuit, Huron, Cree, Cheyenne, and Apache all feature on 2 maps each. Bhakti, Carib, Cherokee, Mapuche, Seminole, Tupi, Zapotec, and Zen all feature on 1 map each.

From my calculations, it seems like the best maps to go natives with in general are Baja California and Mexico. These two maps are incredibly weighted toward the best natives with the best techs. They get you the incredibly powerful Maya, Navajo, Apache, with Zapotec as well on Mexico. Ozarks also gives you a lot of options with Cherokee, Cheyenne, and Comanche, but these aren't quite as strong except for Comanche, which is definitely S or A tier.

Florida is a good map for archer civs, with Seminole and Carib.

Huron is a must on Saguenay and New England, for water booming.

Apache: on Baja California and Mexico
-Villagers get +15% hit points and +15% speed
-Military units get +5% speed. Seems very worth it.
-Apache Cavalry get +2.0x multiplier against villagers

Bhakti: on Himalayas
-Infantry, light infantry and cavalry get +5% attack
-Tiger Claws get +50% hit points
-Settlers, Coureurs des Bois, Settler Wagons, and Villagers gather from Berry Bushes 40% faster. On Dhaka it's extremely good, idk about anywhere else

Carib: on Florida
-Melee infantry and archers get +10% attack -Decent for some civs
-Archers get +1.0x multiplier against villagers
-Heroes can train Carib Ambushers
-Upgrades Carib Blowgunners and Ambushers to Feast Warriors (+50% hit points); requires Champion Carib

Cherokee: on Ozarks
-Native warriors get +20% speed
-Ships 4 Settlers - seems nice, not sure if worth 200w 200c + 200w for cost of TP though.
-Dock, Market, Mill, Farm, Rice Paddy and Plantation improvements (except Selective Breeding, Armor Plating, Carronade, Percussion Lock, Ship's Howitzers, Large Scale Gathering, Deforestation, Excessive Tribute and Big Buttons) cost no wood

Cheyenne: on Great Plains and Ozarks
-Ships 12 Bisons - Can be very nice if you're turtling or contained.
-Cavalry, light infantry, and Forbidden Army train time -25%; Standard Army, Mongolian Army, Ming Army, and Imperial Army train time -12%
-Cheyenne Riders get +2.0x multiplier against cavalry

Comanche: on Ozarks, Colorado, and Great Plains
-Improvements cost -10% coin
-Cavalry and light infantry get +10% hit points
-Cavalry get +10% speed - Both these cav techs from Comanche seem really good.

Cree: on Dakota and Saguenay
-can train Cree CDBs, which is the main reason you get this nat tp. Great for greedy play.
-Infantry, cavalry, and light infantry get +5% hit points
-Native warrior and Cree Coureur des Bois train time -45%
-Buildings cost 10% less resources, build time -25%

Huron: on Saguenay and New England
-Huron Mantlet train limit +200%
-Ships 1 Huron Mantlet for every 2 minutes the game has passed, up to 30 minutes
-Fishing Boats, Caravels/Galleys/War Junks/Fune, Canoes, War Canoes, Tlaloc Canoes, and Marathan Catamarans gather 20% faster. This is only 75w, 75c, really insane tech for fish booming.

Jesuits: on Korea and Malaysia
-Buildings get +20% hit points
-Gunpowder units get +30% siege attack - This seems like a pretty great overlooked tech, if you're going for muskets or skirms. It's basically like that Russian card that gives your infantry more siege damage.
-Villager train time -15%

Klamath: not on any current 1v1 qs maps
-Settlers, Coureurs des Bois, Settler Wagons, and Villagers gather 5% faster - Decent
-Ships 100 food for every 3 minutes the game has passed, up to 30 minutes
-Klamath Riflemen get +25% attack

Mapuche: on Pampas Sierras
-All units cost -10% coin
-Melee infantry get +50% siege attack - Could be great if you're going for halbs, rods, pikes, changdao, skull knights, etc. For super siegers.
-Ships 100 coin for every 2 minutes the game has passed, up to 30 minutes

Maya: on Baja California and Mexico
-Melee infantry get +20% hit points - That's a pretty beefy boost to melee infantry. Seems really good for China with Changdao or Spain with rods.
-Settlers, Coureurs des Bois, Settler Wagons, and Villagers gather food 10% faster. Pretty great as well. Maya seem top tier.

Navajo: on Baja California and Mexico
-Infantry and cavalry get +5% hit points - Pretty decent.
-Livestock fattens 100% faster, and 30% faster when tasked to Livestock Pens, Farms, and Villages; Indian livestock generates XP 30% faster when tasked to Sacred Fields; Japanese livestock contributes 35% more to Shrines' resource/XP trickle. Situationally pretty good.
-All coin gathering (but not trickles) is 20% faster. Holy shit, this is basically like a Royal Mint card that stacks on top of other coin gathering upgrades. Nutty.

Nootka: not on any current 1v1 qs maps
-Villagers get +50% hit points. Fun for troll builds with France going this + northwest passage + pioneers + wilderness warfare.
-Nootka Clubmen cost -10% and train time -50%
-Spawns a Nootka War Chief, and enables Nootka Settlements, Native Embassies and Heroes to retrain him.

Seminole: on Florida
-Seminole Sharktooth Bowmen get +3.0x multiplier against buildings
-Archers get +15% attack. Decent for archer civs.

Shaolin: on Central Plain, Manchuria, and Mongolia
-Ranged infantry get +25% melee attack Here's the answer for cassador melee attack being too weak, I see you breeze
-Settlers, Coureurs des Bois, Settler Wagons, and Villagers gather wood 20% faster - Pretty good, basically just a free exotic hardwoods card.
-Rattan Shields get +50% attack - Good for China if you ship them.

Sufi: on Mongolia, Fertile Crescent, and Malaysia
-Ships 1 Fattened Goat for every 2 minutes the game has passed, up to 30 minutes
-Villager (and Fishing Boats) get -40% hit points but Settlers, Coureurs des Bois, Settler Wagons, and Villagers gather 10% faster. Good once you are walled up with mills and estates and don't need to worry about being raided.
-Villager train limit +10% - Also good for lategame

Tupi: on Gran Chaco
-Archers get +10% attack - Good for archer civs.
-Buildings cost -20% wood
-Town Centers can train Buttercup the Pet Cougars

Udasi: on Punjab and Himalayas
-Heroes get +50% hit points - Could be quite nice, possibly an underrated tech for big fights where you slam that explorer in cover mode.
-Settlers, Coureurs des Bois, Settler Wagons and Villagers gather from Mills, Farms, Rice Paddies, and Plantations 10% faster; Livestock fattens 10% faster when tasked to Livestock Pens, Farms, and Villages; Indian livestock generates XP 10% faster when tasked to Sacred Fields; Japanese livestock contributes 10% more to Shrine's resource/XP trickle - Quite a nice lategame boost.
-Chakrams get +4 LOS and +4 range

Zapotec: on Mexico
-Ships 100 wood for every 2 minutes the game has passed, up to 30 minutes
-Melee infantry get +20% attack - Really great for Spain/China/Aztec, other civs with melee units.
-Settlers, Coureurs des Bois, Settler Wagons, and Villagers gather food 10% faster - Also quite nice.

Zen Temple: on Hokkaido
-Gives 1,000 XP - this is almost mercantilism, for 700 resources.
-Melee infantry get +10% attack
-Unit upgrades cost -20%
Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!
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Canada dansil92
ESOC Maps Team
Posts: 1907
ESO: dansil92

19 Jul 2021, 20:07

"Maya
-Melee infantry get +20% hit points - That's a pretty beefy boost to melee infantry. Seems really good for China with Changdao or Spain with rods."
this also includes coyote runners and pets, unless de has very recently changed this and i missed the patch note. same goes for the zapotec and carib techs, among others. Its really good for aztec, inca, spain, china and india (urumi with 20% hp, or with zapotec another 20% attack, stacks with dravidian)

excellent post btw
Squamiger wrote: the game is won in the trenches of posting on esoc, where true warriors are forged
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No Flag Squamiger
Howdah
Posts: 1235
ESO: Squamiger

19 Jul 2021, 20:16

I want to find the map pool for 1v1 quicksearch so I can sort this list by what nat tps you will actually encounter in a 1v1 game, but I can't find it anywhere. Can someone help ?

ok just from memory we got:

hokkaido
dakota
mexico
baja california
kamchatka
florida
manchuria
great plains
siberia
central plain
new england
saguenay (or is this called hudson bay now)

what am I missing?
Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!
Argentina EliteRifleman
Musketeer
Posts: 64

19 Jul 2021, 20:41

This post comes in handy with the tier list of minor civilizations 21.
But yes, sometimes I see twich games, already advanced, where resources are superfluous, and even then people ignore the natives!
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No Flag Squamiger
Howdah
Posts: 1235
ESO: Squamiger

19 Jul 2021, 20:45

Yes it was inspired by the tier list. Bc I realized I didn’t know what any of the nat civs do.
Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!
Argentina EliteRifleman
Musketeer
Posts: 64

19 Jul 2021, 21:05

Squamiger wrote:I want to find the map pool for 1v1 quicksearch so I can sort this list by what nat tps you will actually encounter in a 1v1 game, but I can't find it anywhere. Can someone help ?

ok just from memory we got:

hokkaido
dakota
mexico
baja california
kamchatka
florida
manchuria
great plains
siberia
central plain
new england
saguenay (or is this called hudson bay now)

what am I missing?


Colorado
Fertile Crescent
Gran Chaco
Himalayas
Korea
Malasya
Mongolia
Ozarks
Pampas Sierras
Punjab

I don't know if they come in too Ozarks and Patagonia
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No Flag Squamiger
Howdah
Posts: 1235
ESO: Squamiger

19 Jul 2021, 21:43

@EliteRifleman thanks, its updated
Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!
Australia PatrickLFC
Crossbow
Posts: 35

19 Jul 2021, 22:36

Squamiger wrote:I want to find the map pool for 1v1 quicksearch so I can sort this list by what nat tps you will actually encounter in a 1v1 game, but I can't find it anywhere. Can someone help ?

ok just from memory we got:

hokkaido
dakota
mexico
baja california
kamchatka
florida
manchuria
great plains
siberia
central plain
new england
saguenay (or is this called hudson bay now)

what am I missing?


Great list!

Someone made this a while back, it's Standard Maps

https://aoetools.space/
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No Flag Squamiger
Howdah
Posts: 1235
ESO: Squamiger

19 Jul 2021, 22:37

PatrickLFC wrote:
Great list!

Someone made this a while back, it's Standard Maps

https://aoetools.space/


thats awesome, it should be stickied somewhere. Looks like I got all the maps covered, plus great plains which was added as a standard map but isnt in this list.
Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!
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Argentina Jets
Dragoon
Posts: 279
ESO: SsJetstream

20 Jul 2021, 15:18

They should make a map with both Mayas and Zapotecs on it, so the players could compete to take native tps since those 2 buff HI a lot.
Vietnam duckzilla
Howdah
Posts: 1813

20 Jul 2021, 16:51

Jets wrote:They should make a map with both Mayas and Zapotecs on it, so the players could compete to take native tps since those 2 buff HI a lot.
Gotta watch out for these tanky 9 damage pikes
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra?
Ceterum censeo Norvegiam habet participes eius divitiis pauperes in hoc mundo.
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No Flag Squamiger
Howdah
Posts: 1235
ESO: Squamiger

20 Jul 2021, 16:58

Jets wrote:They should make a map with both Mayas and Zapotecs on it, so the players could compete to take native tps since those 2 buff HI a lot.


i think Mexico can have both. Or is it an either/or situation when they spawn?
Ich war, ich bin, ich werde sein!
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Canada dansil92
ESOC Maps Team
Posts: 1907
ESO: dansil92

20 Jul 2021, 17:30

Jets wrote:They should make a map with both Mayas and Zapotecs on it, so the players could compete to take native tps since those 2 buff HI a lot.

and urumi, coyote runners, rattan, pet dogs, etc. lots of things have the hand inf class :flowers:
Squamiger wrote: the game is won in the trenches of posting on esoc, where true warriors are forged
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Brazil DNLgibraltar
Crossbow
Posts: 15

20 Jul 2021, 21:56

I strongly wait for a patch to make Minor natives useful.

Right now using them is almost a con to your own game.

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