General forum about Age of Empires 3 DE. Please post strategy threads, recorded games, user-created content and tech support threads in their respective forum.
France iNcog
Ninja
Posts: 12502

14 Sep 2021, 23:45

They didn't nerf Ethiopia mortar or the fact that you can task 5 abuns to it to make it unkillable. In other words, worthless patch.
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Tuvalu gibson
Ninja
Posts: 12801
Location: USA

15 Sep 2021, 00:34

Dolphincup wrote:I'm sure this patch doesn't even come close to balancing Africa. Africa is still largely undiscovered (unlike the USA. who we were promised buffs for on this patch 6 weeks ago), and this patch mostly only targeted the most obvious broken shipments and rushes. Even if some units were toned down, it's unlikely that we won't see something similarly broken pop up soon enough.

OP civs take longer to discover than underpowered civs, because you don't need to know every detail about the civ to win with a 5 minute rush. It would be a lot better for them to over-nerf africa than under-nerf at this point, in terms of bringing the game to proper balance in a reasonable amount of time. If Africa is still OP, we have 6 more weeks of pain ahead of us. If africa were underpowered, we could still play 17 other civilizations in peace.

Plus they didn't even try to address livestock maps.

Bad balance patch considering the time-frame imo. The rest of the patch looks good though. also weird puma buff.
Nah thats exactly how you don't do balance. You make gradual changes until you reach a median instead of making huge changes and wildly hoping to get balance.
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 9009
ESO: Garja

15 Sep 2021, 00:50

err... 18k food all in one spot :hmm:
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United States of America Dolphincup
Musketeer
Posts: 83
ESO: Dolphincup

15 Sep 2021, 01:41

gibson wrote:
Dolphincup wrote:I'm sure this patch doesn't even come close to balancing Africa. Africa is still largely undiscovered (unlike the USA. who we were promised buffs for on this patch 6 weeks ago), and this patch mostly only targeted the most obvious broken shipments and rushes. Even if some units were toned down, it's unlikely that we won't see something similarly broken pop up soon enough.

OP civs take longer to discover than underpowered civs, because you don't need to know every detail about the civ to win with a 5 minute rush. It would be a lot better for them to over-nerf africa than under-nerf at this point, in terms of bringing the game to proper balance in a reasonable amount of time. If Africa is still OP, we have 6 more weeks of pain ahead of us. If africa were underpowered, we could still play 17 other civilizations in peace.

Plus they didn't even try to address livestock maps.

Bad balance patch considering the time-frame imo. The rest of the patch looks good though. also weird puma buff.
Nah thats exactly how you don't do balance. You make gradual changes until you reach a median instead of making huge changes and wildly hoping to get balance.

Your point is only true for games that exist in a relatively healthy, playable state. If a games not in a playable state (and imo it hasn't been for the past 6 weeks), the priority needs to be correcting the state of the game. two bad patches in a row means 3 months of leaving the entire competitive community hanging. Aoe3 players are pretty damn resilient at wading through bullshit for the sake of the game and the community, but I think that we would have lost a lot of activity already if not for kaiserklein's tournament. esp w/ aoe4 coming out. Not everybody is gonna wait a year for them to gradually bring africa into balance.
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Tuvalu gibson
Ninja
Posts: 12801
Location: USA

15 Sep 2021, 03:13

Dolphincup wrote:
gibson wrote:
Dolphincup wrote:I'm sure this patch doesn't even come close to balancing Africa. Africa is still largely undiscovered (unlike the USA. who we were promised buffs for on this patch 6 weeks ago), and this patch mostly only targeted the most obvious broken shipments and rushes. Even if some units were toned down, it's unlikely that we won't see something similarly broken pop up soon enough.

OP civs take longer to discover than underpowered civs, because you don't need to know every detail about the civ to win with a 5 minute rush. It would be a lot better for them to over-nerf africa than under-nerf at this point, in terms of bringing the game to proper balance in a reasonable amount of time. If Africa is still OP, we have 6 more weeks of pain ahead of us. If africa were underpowered, we could still play 17 other civilizations in peace.

Plus they didn't even try to address livestock maps.

Bad balance patch considering the time-frame imo. The rest of the patch looks good though. also weird puma buff.
Nah thats exactly how you don't do balance. You make gradual changes until you reach a median instead of making huge changes and wildly hoping to get balance.

Your point is only true for games that exist in a relatively healthy, playable state. If a games not in a playable state (and imo it hasn't been for the past 6 weeks), the priority needs to be correcting the state of the game. two bad patches in a row means 3 months of leaving the entire competitive community hanging. Aoe3 players are pretty damn resilient at wading through bullshit for the sake of the game and the community, but I think that we would have lost a lot of activity already if not for kaiserklein's tournament. esp w/ aoe4 coming out. Not everybody is gonna wait a year for them to gradually bring africa into balance.
That's just not true. There have been incredibly broken stuff in the biggest esports games and this is the way balance has always gone. More broken stuff in games with hundreds of thousands of dollars of prize pool. The game is in a fine playable state, the only people who are leaving are people in the top 5%, most of whom had stopped playing actively even before African civs came out. It's kinda shitty, but African civs have to be playable or the DLC flops and it's not possible for them to be balanced on release so ofc they're gonna be too good for a bit.
United States of America Dolphincup
Musketeer
Posts: 83
ESO: Dolphincup

15 Sep 2021, 03:45

gibson wrote:
Dolphincup wrote:Your point is only true for games that exist in a relatively healthy, playable state. If a games not in a playable state (and imo it hasn't been for the past 6 weeks), the priority needs to be correcting the state of the game. two bad patches in a row means 3 months of leaving the entire competitive community hanging. Aoe3 players are pretty damn resilient at wading through bullshit for the sake of the game and the community, but I think that we would have lost a lot of activity already if not for kaiserklein's tournament. esp w/ aoe4 coming out. Not everybody is gonna wait a year for them to gradually bring africa into balance.
That's just not true. There have been incredibly broken stuff in the biggest esports games and this is the way balance has always gone. More broken stuff in games with hundreds of thousands of dollars of prize pool. The game is in a fine playable state, the only people who are leaving are people in the top 5%, most of whom had stopped playing actively even before African civs came out. It's kinda shitty, but African civs have to be playable or the DLC flops and it's not possible for them to be balanced on release so ofc they're gonna be too good for a bit.

Steam charts player numbers puts USA DLC impact above africa DLC impact in terms of player base, and USA was an underpowered civ, which immediately dismantles the argument that new civs have to be strong for a successful DLC release.

It's of course subjective on whether or not the game is in a playable state. My experience, which is primarily 2v2's with my brother, is that most games including africa civs are decided on the loading screen. Neither of us play africa b/c OP is not our style, and it's really not fun or worth my time to spend 7 mins in queue just to get stomped by some lamers. 2v2's were fun before Africa DLC, even with sweden lame. Now I haven't touched the game in 3 weeks. I will try again tomorrow to see if it feels better now.

Also I'm skeptical that any major esports tournaments dealt with anything more broken than the hausa rush. Keep in mind that in mobas, 1 broken character is just 1 out of 10, and most mobas have multiple broken characters and both teams get one or two. Plus they have bans. It's not quite the same in an RTS. SC and SC2 certainly never had anything as egregious as this.
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United States of America Kyo_
Crossbow
Posts: 20
ESO: KyoKusanagi

15 Sep 2021, 04:10

Idk what happened, but after this patch the 4 privateer age 3 shipment for dutch doesn't ship. Says it's already at the build limit (???). Confusing on so many levels
No Flag helln00
Howdah
Posts: 1094
ESO: helln00

15 Sep 2021, 04:27

Kyo_ wrote:Idk what happened, but after this patch the 4 privateer age 3 shipment for dutch doesn't ship. Says it's already at the build limit (???). Confusing on so many levels


Ah, let the bug hunting begin
Australia Kawapasaka
Howdah
Posts: 1072
Location: Wales (new, south)

15 Sep 2021, 04:31

Kyo_ wrote:Idk what happened, but after this patch the 4 privateer age 3 shipment for dutch doesn't ship. Says it's already at the build limit (???). Confusing on so many levels


this was already there on the previous patch, at least for ports
No Flag uberjz
Dragoon
Posts: 220
ESO: WoodPusher

15 Sep 2021, 04:33

sometimes the card ships, sometimes it doesn't. this happens with other merc/nat cards as well (the 6 berber cav for africa civs for example).
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No Flag helln00
Howdah
Posts: 1094
ESO: helln00

15 Sep 2021, 04:37

The cards that give 2 or 3 privateers still works, so I am guessing that since they updated the build limit systems, it checks if it takes you over the limit and since the build limit for privateers is 3, it won't let you send, will just need to report the bug
No Flag helln00
Howdah
Posts: 1094
ESO: helln00

15 Sep 2021, 06:20

I do have to say, balance aside, this patch feels a lot smoother to play, unit control seems a lot less janky since I think they removed the unit stopping after kill behaviour
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China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 2878
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

15 Sep 2021, 13:54

LOL someone said Aztec would have a 7 puma shipment after puma nerf, but it's still 6. Now it has only 540 res.
And 5 coyote for 550 res, 8 slinger for 560 res. There are no available shipments now.
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Germany aligator92
Howdah
Posts: 1351
ESO: aligator92

15 Sep 2021, 14:31

fei123456 wrote:LOL I thought Aztec would have a 7 puma shipment after puma nerf, but it's still 6. Now it has only 540 res now.
And 5 coyote for 550 res, 8 slinger for 560 res.

Welp. It was the only aztec age 2 unit shipment that they had not nerfed yet...
No Flag helln00
Howdah
Posts: 1094
ESO: helln00

15 Sep 2021, 14:52

The devs must have saw Aussie Drongo video calling the 7 puma in the public preview good and decided it was too good.
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Canada dansil92
ESOC Maps Team
Posts: 1979
ESO: dansil92

15 Sep 2021, 15:04

aztec is not allowed to be playable
Jebediah Springfield wrote: A noble DLC embiggens the smallest ELO
No Flag helln00
Howdah
Posts: 1094
ESO: helln00

15 Sep 2021, 15:11

The last time aztec was playable, people died (from getting skull knights to the face at 4 min)
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Greece LazarosVas
Skirmisher
Posts: 112
Clan: GMDS

15 Sep 2021, 15:28

Kyo_ wrote:Idk what happened, but after this patch the 4 privateer age 3 shipment for dutch doesn't ship. Says it's already at the build limit (???). Confusing on so many levels


Happened to me with France as well. meh
Netherlands don_artie
Dragoon
Posts: 297
ESO: don artie

15 Sep 2021, 15:39

Im okay with the patch, they didnt touch most of the normal civs which is good and africa idc about
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Germany aligator92
Howdah
Posts: 1351
ESO: aligator92

15 Sep 2021, 19:09

helln00 wrote:The last time aztec was playable, people died (from getting skull knights to the face at 4 min)

I think it was actually pretty good in the end of EP with the 2 warhut age up to colonial
Macau firstaim
Crossbow
Posts: 32

16 Sep 2021, 02:06

There were always some people saying dev good job on balance in every patch came out, but after a year the balance is still like a shit.

Where is the problem?
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Great Britain chris1089
ESOC Community Team
Posts: 2516
ESO: chris1089

16 Sep 2021, 08:58

Can I play either of the African civs without being a lamer or are they still too strong then? Because I would like to theory craft if they aren't op.
Austria Jerimuno
Advanced Player
EPL Reigning Champs
Posts: 808
ESO: Jerimuno
GameRanger ID: 9241516

16 Sep 2021, 09:35

just play what you want @chris1089
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Latvia harcha
Jaeger
Posts: 3695
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

16 Sep 2021, 09:40

chris1089 wrote:Can I play either of the African civs without being a lamer or are they still too strong then? Because I would like to theory craft if they aren't op.

why do you care? i think even if top players played them no-one would really get upset. just don't pretend they are balanced.
princeofcarthage wrote:remember Prince warned about it years ago
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Great Britain chris1089
ESOC Community Team
Posts: 2516
ESO: chris1089

16 Sep 2021, 10:39

I don't like playing op stuff because I don't like it when it's the other way around. But also it means that I'll get inflated elo and then when I play my main civs I'll get bashed every game which isn't very fun.
Although as I'm writing this I'm thinking it might be good for my game because I'll play better players.

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