General forum about Age of Empires 3 DE. Please post strategy threads, recorded games, user-created content and tech support threads in their respective forum.
Australia JKProwler
Dragoon
Posts: 288

26 Jul 2021, 06:05

Connect 4 is too complex, connect 3
Kiribati callentournies
Dragoon
Posts: 498
ESO: esuck

26 Jul 2021, 06:13

Strangely, connect 2 is simpler yet -- but just Connect, now, that's nearly impossible.
jus a bish
Australia JKProwler
Dragoon
Posts: 288

26 Jul 2021, 07:07

It's the paradox of the connect
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European Union aaryngend
Howdah
Posts: 1402
Location: Germany
Clan: N3O

26 Jul 2021, 07:56

I think this is the "maximum complexicty" we are going to get. Or does anyone think that in a years time they will introduce more civs? I kinda doubt it.

This is it :ship:

19 civilizations in total.
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Latvia harcha
Jaeger
Posts: 3905
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

26 Jul 2021, 08:06

unless they decide to remaster the game again in 15 years with a bunch more civilizations and woke ideas
princeofcarthage wrote:remember Prince warned about it years ago
No Flag helln00
Howdah
Posts: 1166
ESO: helln00

26 Jul 2021, 09:57

harcha wrote:unless they decide to remaster the game again in 15 years with a bunch more civilizations and woke ideas


In 15 years maybe we will have invaded mars so age of empires will just be starcraft
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Kiribati princeofcarthage
Retired Contributor
Posts: 7175
Location: Milky Way!

26 Jul 2021, 10:25

As I always say, kids, learn the mechanics, learn the concepts and you can play any civilization. If you only learn the civilization, you only learn that civilization.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Romania Dolan
Gendarme
Posts: 9854
Location: 🕑‏‏‎ ‎

26 Jul 2021, 11:44

Nilla's 8 civs plus TAD's 3 was more than enough complexity. I think TWC civs were not really necessary. Or maybe only Aztecs could have been included and one nilla civ removed (Ottos?).
So 11 civs would have been more than enough complexity, while still allowing a more manageable level of balance.
I don't think the game would have lost much if it didn't have Iros, Sioux and Ottos.
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Kiribati princeofcarthage
Retired Contributor
Posts: 7175
Location: Milky Way!

26 Jul 2021, 11:46

Sioux and Ottos are actual nice changes to mechanic and gameplay but poorly inplemented
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Great Britain I_HaRRiiSoN_I
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 1446
Location: United Kingdom

26 Jul 2021, 12:52

Ive never played a game as india/inca as i wouldnt really know where to start with the civ. I will trry and give thenew africa civs a good go though while i donate my elo to the ladder upon release
No Flag helln00
Howdah
Posts: 1166
ESO: helln00

26 Jul 2021, 13:09

it sort of depends for me what is the complexity that the game has, if the game was just different ways to get more resources and train more units, then tbh I think we can take a few more, Swede and Inca felt a bit like that, I say we can take like 4 more of those

US and the African civs, if they are a bell weather for how other civs will be developed in the future, thats a bit different. We can maybe take 2 more like civs with that kind of difference in mechanic
Denmark jonasnee
Crossbow
Posts: 22
ESO: jose96

20 Nov 2021, 16:26

i mean we know we are getting at least 1 more civ, and personally i am hoping for more civs after that.

that said i hope future civs will be less complex, i think the african Civs and even the US to some extend are too complex for the good of the game. both rely exceptionally much on their age up for economic upgrades.
No Flag RefluxSemantic
Gendarme
Posts: 5439

21 Nov 2021, 00:26

When games get more and more complex, it feels harder and harder to make meaningful strategic decisions. What would be the point in spending time figuring out some specific match up when there are thousands of match ups? What's the point of trying to understand how specific build orders interact when there are millions of different BO options. It would just feel like a complete waste of effort. It's also what I've always liked about aoe3, somehow the strategic diversity has always felt limited enough to the point where figuring out specific strategies feels worth it. With each new civ, that aspect of aoe3 is torn down a little bit more.
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Great Britain chris1089
ESOC Community Team
Posts: 2581
ESO: chris1089

21 Nov 2021, 17:46

Ye it will increasingly make botting 2-3 build orders more profitable and adapting to your opponent less important.
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No Flag Squamiger
Howdah
Posts: 1436
ESO: Squamiger

22 Nov 2021, 08:52

thats probably why the best game would just be the original 8 civs with all the DE changes
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Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10286
ESO: Pezet

22 Nov 2021, 09:42

it's step 1 of turning AoE into a Paradox game
:biggrin:
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Netherlands MCJim
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2684
ESO: MCJim
Location: The Netherlands

22 Nov 2021, 16:50

We have 20 civs now with Mexico as the newest civ, available on December 1st '21.

So 20 civs, too much? Too few?
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India Challenger_Marco
Jaeger
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 2423
ESO: challenger_marco

22 Nov 2021, 16:57

too few tbh in WOL there are 43 civs and they bringing the same concept to DE so might as well include all those civs & have fun balancing xD
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United States of America Dolphincup
Musketeer
Posts: 95
ESO: Dolphincup

22 Nov 2021, 17:04

One major issue with Africa DLC is that the new layers of complexity are not optional for anybody. If you didn't want to learn Inca, you could still see archers and pikemen and you could know what to do to fight against them using the civs you're familiar with (and now that chimu's are snare-able / the rafts have been tuned down / light cannons can't be bought in age 3 / invisible forts are reveal-able, there really aren't too many terrible surprises with Inca lmao). Against Africa, you get melee-ranged-cav, melee-damage-throwing-ranged-urumi, and resistance-swapping-shield-guys-of-mysterious-type walking into your base at 6 minutes. You have no option to just stick to civs you know and play the game the way you used to play it. Your only options are study the new civs and all 99 of their new bizarre units or go play AoE4, and a lot of people are just choosing the latter. Think this time around, the extra layers of complexity are just too intrusive.

Part of the reason it feels so bad, IMO, is that Africa added complexity by deconstructing the existing rules rather than building upon the existing structure.

Edit: just saw mexico announcement lol. Hopefully this one turns out better. Also kind of hope they stop making new civs, but also want them to keep supporting the game :hmm:
Maybe they can just put out a bucket for us to put money into once every three months instead?
Denmark jonasnee
Crossbow
Posts: 22
ESO: jose96

22 Nov 2021, 18:31

MCJim wrote:We have 20 civs now with Mexico as the newest civ, available on December 1st '21.

So 20 civs, too much? Too few?


i still hope for more civs, i just hope they go with slightly less complex civs.

like i REALLY wanna see a europeans DLC, and maybe an asian faction or 2 and i think those could be fun and interesting without requiring several attempts to figure conceptually.

like i think china is a great example of a complex faction that is still understandable.

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