European politics

[harcha]

POC trying to introduce ambiguity in a black and white situation. There is no justification for carpet bombing housing and other in-use civilian structures like hospitals and kindergardens, or shooting up civis evacuating.

[Vinyanyérë]

POC repeatedly speedrunning the "not happening" -> "US did it too" -> "unfortunate collateral damage" -> "they deserve it" dialogue tree

[RefluxSemantic]

And there are basically only matters like this. I'm genuinely considering whether I should just not vote.

Yep, that's one problem with democracy, most people are likely not informed or even qualified enough to vote for some policies. And if parties try to make subjects more accessible by simplifying things for voters, it doesn't make voters more competent since many policy problems hang on very specific details or nuances that get lost in such simplifications.
In the end voters vote for something like: do you prefer a shade of red or a shade of blue in the grand scheme of things. It's political impressionism.
It makes political choices look like: which type of Windows theme you think is best?



Imagine me, who barely remembers much from chemistry, being called to vote on which chemical compounds should be included in food products sold on the market. Just because chemicals are used everywhere, they affect everyone's lives so I need to have a say in this, and since I'm a consumer, I pay for products, I need to be represented because I'm taxed through purchasing. Then chemists would try to simplify things for me, making the choice between X and Y compounds a question of everyday effects: if you vote for X to be included in products, eating a lot of X-including product could have a diuretic effect, if you vote for Y inclusion, eating a lot of Y product could temporarily stain teeth. And then some "alternative chemist" comes and says: don't support X because it's mostly produced by a business owned by family Nosenfeld and they are Davos and WEF regulars, where the elites decide what to put in your food to make your kids enbies.

What neither of them would be telling you is that there's a much longer and complicated list of effects that depend on age, sex, or health in the degree to which those chemicals could have an impact on you. And even the way they simplified how X and Y were presented to you wasn't really that innocent, they used PR experts to estimate which biological effect you'd be likely to consider less threatening. Even the way political choices were presented to you was shaped like a product, based on what could make that choice more psychologically enticing to you. A lot of politics is a seduction game and parties know if they want to draw you in their direction they need new themes or older themes presented differently, they need a new package and a new face to sell that political product. In the end you're picking between Pepsi, Sprite and Fanta parties.

Not to mention that even if you believe in that grand goal of the Enlightenment that the press and other institutions can raise people's ability to participate through education, let's get real. The most widely read news are celebrity gossip and what most people read about politics at best is just the main headlines, which are specifically worded to hook attention, to stir up emotions. In-depth, technical analyses of political decisions are for a very specific, niche public that is willing to invest the time to get the full spectrum of trade-offs and minimised risks posed by making political decisions. Most voters more or less consciously expect parties and candidates to wow them, by "projecting" themselves, by breaking through the TV screen -- as some people in political PR say.

The whole process of campaigning and voting looks more like parties are looking to secure democratic legitimacy so they can get into power, rather than "citizens participating in shaping public decisions", as the basic narrative about democracy runs.
Politics as a supply-side game of economics, in which parties are corporations looking to sell their product in the name of "our shared values that represent our beloved brand".
They will say that since you're buying product, then you support the brand, so the system is legitimate. It's you buying product that really makes the world turn, you are changing the world by buying a particular product.
It instill in you the impression you're the mover in politics.

At least on a national level it seems like the themes are more broad and of a more moral nature. I feel qualified to believe in more social values, and then the application of those values and the specifics is something the ministries will figure out. Thats a way in which politics can work. But on this local level there are no broad themes. Its just the specifics that I dont know enough about.

[Dolan]

And how do you argue that those are civilians any longer? They are actively resisting Russian forces, even attacking them. Some of them are carrying arms, some of them are hiding and supporting Ukrainian military. They are playing an active part in war and that makes them combatants. Mariupol for ex. Is encircled. Civilians could let armies fight and surrender to victor. You cannot stand in front of a tank and then argue if fired upon. Do you see this happening in melitopol where the city is now under Russian control?

I've posted tens of videoclips in this thread showing how Russia has been using cluster munitions and MLRS missiles on cities. By their nature, these two military techs are unable to be directed very precisely. The missiles are unguided. And the cluster munitions split the explosive payload before hitting targets. They are specifically made to do damage over a scattered and wide area, to maximise the damage spread.

This actually happens every day, according to a clear schedule: each day, after 8 PM, Russian troops start directing a barage of cluster munitions and MLRS missiles on whole areas of an urban center. In the morning we see footage of cratered and fuming blocks of apartments and victims getting carried on stretchers by ambulance crews.
It's obvious from this footage that Russian troops:
- indiscriminately target large areas inhabited by civilians
- this does a lot of damage over a widespread area in a city
- there are human victims that were just civilians living in those areas

Ukrainian fighters are unlikely to just stay put in civilian flats, they know very well they could get hit by the evening and nighttime barrage. A lot of UKR fighters also wear armour and helmets, which can increase your chances of not dying from random fire.

[gibson]

POC repeatedly speedrunning the "not happening" -> "US did it too" -> "unfortunate collateral damage" -> "they deserve it" dialogue tree

Only the west can do bad things, didnt you know?

[Dolan]

Echelon of American M2 Bradley IFVs reportedly in Amberg, Germany. Looks like NATO/US is redeploying armaments as the situation with Russia is deteriorating

Redeployment of American M1A2 Abrams battle tanks reportedly in the German city of Mannheim

[Dolan]

Context: three Central Euro leaders from Poland/Slovenia/Czechia visited Zelensky in Kiev
Polish leader blurted out this idea:

[Dolan]

Alleged cruise missile heading for Kiev (video 1), then hitting Kiev building (vid 2)

[Dolan]

Kiev - Russian missile hit a residential building in the Shevchenko district at about 6:00 am

[Dolan]

Kharkiv - school ruins

>it was just collateral damage
>the kids in the school were nazis
>ukrainians are destroying their own schools and blaming it on russians

[Dolan]

A blaze breaks out at a 16-story apartment building hit by Russian attacks in the Sviatoshynskyi district of Kiev



Firefighters work to extinguish flames in an apartment building hit by shelling in Kiev

[chris1089]

One of the things in war that interests me is that it's harder than usual to know where the real truth lies due to the scale of propaganda.

[Dolan]

No bridges, no air superiority, stalled advance
What's left? Bomb the cities from afar

[Mr_Bramboy]

The sad thing here is that Ukraine will be forced into a peace deal that will see them sign away their right to join any European institution or be bombed into oblivion.

[RefluxSemantic]

One of the things in war that interests me is that it's harder than usual to know where the real truth lies due to the scale of propaganda.

Russia sets the baseline. They show us what real lies look like.

[Dolan]

The sad thing here is that Ukraine will be forced into a peace deal that will see them sign away their right to join any European institution or be bombed into oblivion.

And that won't be bad, because they don't have to respect anything signed under threat.
Just like Russia didn't respect the treaty they signed back in the 90s when Ukraine gave up its nukes in exchange for Russia recognising its territorial integrity.
As long as Ukraine can use such a respite to run down the clock and keep arming itself to prepare for any future attack, it's still time put to good use.

[Horsemen]

Should have rolled a 6-pip maneouvre general I guess.

[Riotcoke]

'Russian forces are stuggling to overcome Ukraine's terrain' - The east of the country is basically flat fields. I don't think Europe needs to worry about any conventional shit vs Russia's armies

[chris1089]

One of the things in war that interests me is that it's harder than usual to know where the real truth lies due to the scale of propaganda.

Russia sets the baseline. They show us what real lies look like.

Probs North Korea tbh. The difficulty comes in how much to believe of the "good" side. E.g stuff coming out of Ukraine, or the allies in WW2. The same also applies to the "bad" side too though, because not everything is a total lie, and most propaganda is built on at least some truth.

[fightinfrenchman]

One of the things in war that interests me is that it's harder than usual to know where the real truth lies due to the scale of propaganda.

Russia sets the baseline. They show us what real lies look like.

Probs North Korea tbh. The difficulty comes in how much to believe of the "good" side. E.g stuff coming out of Ukraine, or the allies in WW2. The same also applies to the "bad" side too though, because not everything is a total lie, and most propaganda is built on at least some truth.

You may not realise it, but reading that into it reveals a heavy influence of critical theory in your thinking.

[Dolan]

[Dolan]

Pavlovo field, Kharkiv

Kharkiv, school

[Dolan]

Be civilian.
Walk around.
Building you've just passed by goes boom



Close

[Dolan]

So, this was a market

It got bombed.

The pigeons seem unfazed.

[princeofcarthage]

Russian lawmaker demands US hand over Alaska, part of California as 'reparations'

https://flip.it/Jz8r1R

Not sure if it is actual news channel or parody one