How strong is Aztec currently?

[hidden_blaze]

So I've been trying to play Aztec recently, and cannot say I feel like I'm doing the first thing right. When I play colonial, I'm getting outboomed most of the time, when I try to ff with WP, the timing push of my opponents just hits to hard. They feel kinda underwhelming to me, with a worse age 2 than on EP where they already were considered D-tier iirc and a better age 3 that you can reach much easier, but it still doesn't seem to hold a candle against strong age 3 civs like china or dutch. I've been checking recent games on ESOCTV, but noone seems to play them (last games I found were from last year where kalmacac wasn't even a card I think).

So yeah, my question is, how strong do you consider Aztec to be right now? Are they just not that good or am I doing things wrong?

Thanks in advance

[fei123456]

It's definitely the stronger tier. You can send 2 war hut travois first, and cavalry raiding/normal pressure is nothing.

[Garja]

It's definitely the stronger tier. You can send 2 war hut travois first, and cavalry raiding/normal pressure is nothing.

bruh why you so obsessed with 2wh card, it's mediocre

So I've been trying to play Aztec recently, and cannot say I feel like I'm doing the first thing right. When I play colonial, I'm getting outboomed most of the time, when I try to ff with WP, the timing push of my opponents just hits to hard. They feel kinda underwhelming to me, with a worse age 2 than on EP where they already were considered D-tier iirc and a better age 3 that you can reach much easier, but it still doesn't seem to hold a candle against strong age 3 civs like china or dutch. I've been checking recent games on ESOCTV, but noone seems to play them (last games I found were from last year where kalmacac wasn't even a card I think).

So yeah, my question is, how strong do you consider Aztec to be right now? Are they just not that good or am I doing things wrong?

Thanks in advance

Aztecs are not easy to play so it's likely you're doing suboptimal stuff. However you are right, they're not that good atm. Even tho they received many buffs they still retain the traditional weaknesses. I don't think China and Dutch are particularly hard MU (French and India are worse for example) but no MU is great for them atm (maybe Japan is).
I wouldn't advise rushing (especially with the war hut units, check my maya rush strat instead) but rather just do a 10WP boom and then decide whether to do a timing push in age2 or just age up. Against China you can even just 4wp naked FF for a slinger/skull/coyote combo. The FI is strong and works best vs civs that don't have goons (can't abuse army mobility) and civs that don't have top boom (like India can just boom and match Aztec age ups).
On water maps you can do water strats and in theory the old coyote opening strats should still be viable but require you to know ins and out of the civ plus have top notch mechanics to multitask micro and macro perfectly.

[hidden_blaze]

So thanks for the answers, I appreciate the input! 2 WH first sounds like a bit of a hassle, like there're so many shipments I wanna send in early colonial (3WP, 5v, 700w, military) that I wouldn't know where to chuck that in.

I read the maya-rush BO you posted and practiced it offline against the AI, didn't use it in MP yet though. Waht I am very confused with is the Calmecac card. Do you always ship that regardless of what you're doing? Or do you only send it when you wanna ff and need it to got to age 3 quicker? I used to send it when I played a colonial build to age into age 2 faster with the Elder, so I could use the messenger later if I ever wanna go age 3, thing is that that leaves you without a shipment once you hit age 2 which felt really suboptimal. So should i just skip it if I'm not planning to go age 3 anytime soon or should I still send it because it also gives a WP, and eventually I might wanna go to age 3 anyways? You talk about a 4 WP ff so i assume you wouldn't send calmacac in that build (Otherwise would be 5 WP wouldn't it)? I'm kinda confused about all the different combinations of politicians and calmacac possibilities that seem possible that I cannot really say which ones are viable.

[Garja]

Calmecac card is only for a better 10WP boom because you have to put 9-10 vills in transition to get another shipment. I think it's still useful even for the age2 timing because you can age with the war hut and don't have to wait for 700w to drop it.

[leg[]]

I can only agree. Not that I have credibility like Diarogua who played this game in tournaments back when it was newer, or someone like Garja who extensively know it better.

But obviously, skirmishers are just better. I think at the time before Japan and Asian civs came, Aztecs had a chance to be 'best', but it was still not best because basic army comp from like Germans, with skirms mixed in, tends to beat them. There could be some randomness in this.

See result back in 2008 when the top players played with figuring out the top strategies, maybe some things changed, but that was the outcome, and it feels that way. It's satisfying to play and win and Aztecs built up is almost unstoppable in my opinion, due to such hard counters and when using wardance and all.

The fact skirms generally trade so well even against their only counter which is coyote runners is the deal sealer. That and Japan is like anti-Aztec, you just spam Ashi-archers which are like anti-infantry longbows (almost like cheat to win at that point), or muskets, and their eco and everything are just better. That is also probably long discovered and when I see top players saying Japan is a top civ I can only feel like it makes sense why.

I still find it fun to play Aztecs but it definitely has no chance and will lose almost every time vs Japan unless you just generally outplay a worse player, if they aren't doing something wrong you will lose then.