DE mercs and outlaws

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Latvia AUngurs
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DE mercs and outlaws

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Post by AUngurs »

Hello. Wanted to rant a bit about DE mercsh and how they're progressively becoming more and more busted. Just showing a couple here to make a point.


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This is one of DE's goon mercs - zenata rider. They cost 250c, which is 30c more than a manchu, but they get 25 range resist, 2 more range and insane animation for kiting. If you look up one of the latest hazza's streams, you can see how these units shit on everything, not just cav.


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Another straight up better unit. Both cost 300c and 3 pop but you can see which one is miles ahead of the other. Sure, stradiots have slightly more ranged hp and 7.25 speed, but bosniaks have stronger attack (for some reason they have multipliers vs hand cav), that promotion mechanism and a charged ability. There's no reason someone would ever choose stradiots over these new units.


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On paper this musk unit doesn't look overly broken for 250c and 4 pop, but they're actually insane cuz of that deflection ability and enormous hp, you just need to pair them with some skirms or huss and then watch your army not be able to die.


Now quickly about outlaws. With the launch of African Royals, the devs decided to mess with the outlaw and native system and we got gifted with these two - desert archer and desert warrior.
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They spawn on all african maps but don't really fit into the whole outlaw section. They cost both - food and coin, and require only 2 pop, whereas normal outlaws take 4-5. Even though they got some nerfs (at least the musks did, don't remember about archers), they're still insanely good for their price of 30f 75c, especially for civs without a musketeer unit. Thankfully the newest DLC went back to the normal outlaw system, but there are still some problems here.


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This is an age 2 light cav outlaw that costs 140c and 4 pop. It deals 60 (24*2,5) damage to cav in melee for the people who are too lazy to kite. They, too, have promotions so the stats get even more ridiculous.


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This unit is called cossack daredevil (3 pop). It costs 100c and can switch between being hand cav unit or a musketeer. The stats are pretty busted for what the unit can do, and they even have some weird charged abilities for more dps.


Overall I think the devs should take a look at all these new outlaws and mercs they introduced and tone them down a bit, even if they're not being used 24/7.
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

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Post by callentournies »

Bit efforty imo

Power creep is the name of the game

thnks gonna go ger mercs next time I stream
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

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Post by dansil92 »

you can tell its a DE musket because it has 4.5 speed
look wrote:
06 Jun 2022, 21:43
with all due respect, this is the kind of comment that should not be taken into consideration.
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by Riotcoke »

Yea those armoured pistol guys are insane. Would you rather have that or a highlander lol
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

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Post by ShinkuroYukinari »

I think you're overselling most units here.

Zenata I would agree that they're overtuned, but the rest are fine if you keep in mind the slow training, oftentimes requiring specific cards to use them.

Albanian Stradiot is a generalist that can get away from poor trades and run to NATO safety from a raid or a hit on a skirm mass. Bosniaks are meant for that one hit that will deal tons of damage, but if caught are far less likely to get away. Their damage multipliers clearly show it.

If you run Pistoler with skirmishers, he is either in front and soaking up shots that will likely kill him in a single skirm volley, or he sits in the back doing no damage. Tho you could make the argument about him protecting skirms from a Hussar raid thanks to his musk stats and sick melee armour.
Running him with Hussars means the group is slower and prevents you from forcing engagements.

Have the Desert lot ever been a problem? I can see them patching up a comp for a civ that doesnt have proper skirms in age2, but otherwise they look alright for the time and pop needed to get them.

Crabat is fine. Glass cannon that can soak up a nice amount of skirmisher shots and can potentially be good for raiding. Otherwise, not that exceptional.

Same with the Cossack. Extremely frail and requires lots of pop for a unit that can easily get demolished by even a mass of Xbows due to how frail it is, unless it reaches a critical mass. Given how 20 of them cost a whole normal mine and 6 houses, good luck.

And to repeat, you're locked into building a specific building to slowly train them, with very few civs having the option to get them faster or multiple buildings of that type.
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by EliteRifleman »

We need to give the spies a ranged attack and a very large buff
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by Riotcoke »

ShinkuroYukinari wrote:
05 Jun 2022, 20:18
I think you're overselling most units here.

Zenata I would agree that they're overtuned, but the rest are fine if you keep in mind the slow training, oftentimes requiring specific cards to use them.

Albanian Stradiot is a generalist that can get away from poor trades and run to NATO safety from a raid or a hit on a skirm mass. Bosniaks are meant for that one hit that will deal tons of damage, but if caught are far less likely to get away. Their damage multipliers clearly show it.

If you run Pistoler with skirmishers, he is either in front and soaking up shots that will likely kill him in a single skirm volley, or he sits in the back doing no damage. Tho you could make the argument about him protecting skirms from a Hussar raid thanks to his musk stats and sick melee armour.
Running him with Hussars means the group is slower and prevents you from forcing engagements.

Have the Desert lot ever been a problem? I can see them patching up a comp for a civ that doesnt have proper skirms in age2, but otherwise they look alright for the time and pop needed to get them.

Crabat is fine. Glass cannon that can soak up a nice amount of skirmisher shots and can potentially be good for raiding. Otherwise, not that exceptional.

Same with the Cossack. Extremely frail and requires lots of pop for a unit that can easily get demolished by even a mass of Xbows due to how frail it is, unless it reaches a critical mass. Given how 20 of them cost a whole normal mine and 6 houses, good luck.

And to repeat, you're locked into building a specific building to slowly train them, with very few civs having the option to get them faster or multiple buildings of that type.
Zenata are cracked as they're better in every way than Manchu, which was an S tier merc to get in TAD btw.

Bosniaks are a straight upgrade apart from speed and have a 75 attack area 3 charged attack which is insane.

Pistolers have 800 hp and 70 attack area 1 with the german merc card, they basically don't die and actually do a huge amount of damage when they're firing.

The desert guys had to be nerfed when they were added and are still better than the normal outlaws after the nerf. Main point here is pop space, pistoleros aren't bad but they're also really expensive when you account for early game pop-space, these guys aren't. Also they cost gold and food, so you can actually add musks or huss into the mix quite easily with them.

Crabats are insane, compare them again to the age 2 outlaws from TAD maps which were usually situational units. Crabats seem to do well versus 2/3 of age 2 units rather than being a shitty dragoon like comancheros.

The saloon has also been buffed in DE to give a gold trickle, not much but decent.
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by helln00 »

isnt the crabat a hakkapelit/harquabusier type unit? its should be considered a heavy cav for tag purposes
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by look »

ShinkuroYukinari wrote:
05 Jun 2022, 20:18


Crabat is fine.
no.. thats lammer for 2age
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by look »

ShinkuroYukinari wrote:
05 Jun 2022, 20:18
I think you're overselling most units here.

Zenata I would agree that they're overtuned, but the rest are fine if you keep in mind the slow training, oftentimes requiring specific cards to use them.

Albanian Stradiot is a generalist that can get away from poor trades and run to NATO safety from a raid or a hit on a skirm mass. Bosniaks are meant for that one hit that will deal tons of damage, but if caught are far less likely to get away. Their damage multipliers clearly show it.

If you run Pistoler with skirmishers, he is either in front and soaking up shots that will likely kill him in a single skirm volley, or he sits in the back doing no damage. Tho you could make the argument about him protecting skirms from a Hussar raid thanks to his musk stats and sick melee armour.
Running him with Hussars means the group is slower and prevents you from forcing engagements.

Have the Desert lot ever been a problem? I can see them patching up a comp for a civ that doesnt have proper skirms in age2, but otherwise they look alright for the time and pop needed to get them.

Crabat is fine. Glass cannon that can soak up a nice amount of skirmisher shots and can potentially be good for raiding. Otherwise, not that exceptional.

Same with the Cossack. Extremely frail and requires lots of pop for a unit that can easily get demolished by even a mass of Xbows due to how frail it is, unless it reaches a critical mass. Given how 20 of them cost a whole normal mine and 6 houses, good luck.

And to repeat, you're locked into building a specific building to slowly train them, with very few civs having the option to get them faster or multiple buildings of that type.
with all due respect, this is the kind of comment that should not be taken into consideration.
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by Thrar »

Comments that elaborate their reasoning should not be taken into consideration? What do we base consideration on; just whether you agree with them or not?

If we want to have a meaningful discussion I think it's essential to explain the reasons for an opinion. Perhaps you could explain yours so we can take it into consideration too?
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by callentournies »

Thrar wrote:
07 Jun 2022, 01:01
Comments that elaborate their reasoning should not be taken into consideration? What do we base consideration on; just whether you agree with them or not?

If we want to have a meaningful discussion I think it's essential to explain the reasons for an opinion. Perhaps you could explain yours so we can take it into consideration too?
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

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Post by dansil92 »

this is the content i keep coming back to esoc for
look wrote:
06 Jun 2022, 21:43
with all due respect, this is the kind of comment that should not be taken into consideration.
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by fei123456 »

It's fun that crabat destroys Lakota bow rider without any micro.
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by Challenger_Marco »

fei123456 wrote:
07 Jun 2022, 02:59
It's fun that crabat destroys Lakota bow rider without any micro.
Yeah Crabats are super busted ...strongest goons in age 2
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by helln00 »

US cowboys flashback
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

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Post by Lukas_L99 »

This game is just more and more turning into a meme.
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by DNLgibraltar »

Fast forward for today:

These armored pistoleers are insane, their stats alone when compared to legacy mercs is out of bounds: 60% armor, 660 HP + deflect ability for just 250c...their offensive stats are also nothing to be shy about
There is a tech that delivers Black Riders and these musketeers as well, and there you can see how unproportional /cost-effective (aka: powerful) they are. They are unbelievable. Those papal lancers too..what the heck are those. I got the DLC later, during the steam summer sale (and I like it) but 300 resources each for a "semi-Elmeti" who shadowtech is crazy. They are not THAT broken because people barely use them in supremacy.

Anyway...let me go back to be shocked and mesmerized by those units again.
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

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Post by iNcog »

When the DE devs play way too much league of legends?

Charged attack? Damage absorption? Promotions? What the hell?
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by Jets »

You guys haven't lamed mercs with germany, is freelo.
EliteRifleman wrote:
05 Jun 2022, 20:59
We need to give the spies a ranged attack and a very large buff
Also give them vs outlaws/natives multipliers.
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by DNLgibraltar »

iNcog wrote:
06 Jul 2022, 22:06
When the DE devs play way too much league of legends?

Charged attack? Damage absorption? Promotions? What the hell?
Fixed guns, area stuns, special attacks, units whose tags changes when you change their stance, buildings that teleport your army, unique legacy units being available to each new civ that is unveiled, powercreep...

All these things are not a problem itself when they are restricted or made once in a while, but AOE3 is definetely going into a MOBA direction, intentionally. And the devs are pushing it hard. It started with Carolean's charge and now look at where we are now. Italy feels like a genuine euro civ, Malta looks like a mod.

Good times when the only special stuff were warships volley attack, invisibility in Warchiefs and stuns from TAD monks. I have no problem with more effects but they should slow it down because every new DLC brings new special MOBA mechanics. It's getting crazy!!!
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by DayanG »

When a new fanpatch?
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

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Post by iNcog »

AoE4, for all its shortcomings, does do one thing right. It doesn't do bullshit.
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by callentournies »

promotions are too gimmick, and free tp big buttons.

I'm warming up to the 100f 100w nat change, it should just require a hero or smth. I still hate hausa with every fiber
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Re: DE mercs and outlaws

Post by duckzilla »

Hausa is the Haude of DE
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

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