Haudenosaunee Guide

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French Southern Territories kevinitalien
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Haudenosaunee Guide

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Post by kevinitalien »

Haudenosaunee Guide



Image


Contents

1) Introduction
2) Deck
3) Age 1
4) Build Orders
5) Match Ups



1) Introduction

The Haudenosaunee civ has always been considered one of the strongest civs in the game, many people I think remember the iroquois on RE and even on the EP the civ has always been amazing, and still today on the DE this civ is just one of the strongest in the game, why? Because this civ is probably the most versatile civ we have in the game, hauds can do almost everything ( ff, rush, water, timing ) but not only, hauds units age 3 are probably one of the strongest in the game in particular thanks to their warchief which gives them a boost of hp but to be able to have these qualities the civ must also have weaknesses and the eco is considered by the players as one of the worst in the game (mmh really?)

I would therefore like to share the 4 most classic builds in my opinion and the easiest to do for anyone who wants to learn this civ

2) Deck

Land Deck :

Image

Water Deck :

Image

Image this card can replace the age 1 wood card

Image This card can replace Image especially against civs that use a lot of musk (aka otto india swe for example)

Image 5 mantlets can replace Image ,these 5 mantlets can really help to defend you from a timing with a lot of infantry or can even push with them and can take 1 million shots


3) Age 1

Haudenosaunee has 3 different ages 1

15 vills age up + tp ( classic age 1 ):

collect your crate and train your first vills, then collect :wood: as quickly as possible until you collect 100 :wood: without interrupting your production of vills ofc and explore the map with your travois, once you have collected your 100 :wood: put all your vills on :food: and build your tp, order your travois to build a house (try not to put your house in a easy place for your opponent to destroy), send 3 vills and click on the age up once you have trained 15 vills (sometimes you can click at 14 vills if you had good :food: treasures)

14 vills age up + farm ( on no tp map or livestock map )

collect your crate and train your first vills, collect 25 :wood: for build your house and put all your vills on :food:, with your travois explore a bit the map and try to find some cattle, do not explore too much your travois because you want a farm for the xp it will give you and that you can send your 3 vills as quickly as possible (important), you should be able to click age up with 14 vills especially if you find cattle

15 vills age up + dock ( water map )

Collect your crate and train your first vills, order your travois to go build a dock as quickly as possible and put all your vills on wood except 1 for herd your hunt ( 5 or 6 vills on :wood: no more ), age 1 you want to gather 235 :wood: (25 :wood: for your house and 210 :wood: for 3 fishing boats), build your house and train 3 fishing boats no more, once you have trained them put all your vills on :food: , you should be able to click the age up with 18 vills ( 15 vills + 3 fishing boats ) around 3min 05sec, in transition you always want a tp and a house before the market ( important )

3) Build Orders

Fast Fortress :

Age up 3 vills + 1 travois, in transition put all your vills on :wood: except 2 who are going to herd the nearby hunt, gather 150 :wood: 50 :coin: for market hunting dogs and then 125 :wood: for a house, once it's finished distribute your vills to :food: and :coin:, train vills, send 5 vills first and build a barrack with your travois and then send 800 crates and click messenger age up ( fast age ) with 27 vills, you should be age 3 around 7 min 10, with the :wood: of your crates you keep 200 :wood: in bank which will be used to research as quickly as possible vet kanya and during the transition put 4 or 5 vills in the :wood: which will be used to build houses (you will need a lot of population ), once reach age3 build a stable with your travois and research vet kanya, send 6 kanya and train 5 forest prowlers, you can start to pressure your opponent with 6 vet kanya and 10fp+warchief or 5 musket riders instead of 5 fp if he ff or semi ff and if your opponent attack you should be able to defend (the warchief is very important, he can crackshot pike which tries to destroy your tp or musk which arrives in your base, he also increases the hp of your unit and on 6 vet kanya at 7min30 it’s very important, try to keep him alive ), then you have to adapt to what your opponent is doing, in general I want anti cav so I train 5 musket riders and I send 5 and so I have 10 musket riders 30 to 40 seconds later and then 8 fp etc or if you want to be greedy send 1200 crates and build a second barrack

Semi FF 15 tomahawks 4 kanya:

Age up 3 vills + 1 travois, once you reach age 2 build a barrack with your travois, train your first vills and then search the BB 5 tomahawks and send 5 vills, start training your tomahawks from your barrack, in second card send 4 kanya, you should have 15 tomahawks+warchief and 4 kanya at 6 min 10, in the third card send the 800 crates and remacro your vills on :food: and :coin: , you should be age 3 at 8 min 30 with 30 vills and 3 houses (3 house is important to have a good fluidity), once you reach age 3 you can search for the second BB on tc for 500 :food: 500 :coin: and send 6 kanya (if you do this think about looking for vet tomahawks) or just train forest prowlers and send 6 kanyas and think about looking for vet kanya as soon as possible, the macro for your age 3 is always to have 5 vills on :wood:
For this strat is important to not lost your army for nothing especially your kanya so don't take a fight if you're not sure you'll win it

Rush Fast age:

Fast age up+travois, in transi you want to make a house and then reput all your vills on :food: , once you reach age 2 build a barrack with your travois on the middle of the map and send 4 kanya when your travois is halfway to your fb ( important so that your 4 kanya comes out of your barrack so remember to put the shipment point on your barrack ) and go raid with your 4 kanya and don't lose your kanya against mm or unnecessarily (if you lose these 4 kanya you have already lost the game xD), you should have 4 kanya in your opponent's base at about 4min 30, after training 1 vills look for the BB to have 5 toma, the toma will destroy the tp if your opponent has built a tp ( 4 kanya 5 toma at 5 min ), after your BB remacro your vills on :food: and :wood: and keeps training toma or start to train aenna if your opponent start barrack, as second card send 5 vills and keep pressure your opponent ( again try to not lose your army very important ), at 6 min you should have 15 infantry and 4 kanya and as 3rd shipment you send 600w for second barrack or stable market hunting dog and then send 7 aenna or 6 toma, you should be able to timing your opponent at 8 min with approximatively 35 inf and your kanya

Semi FF stage coach ( 3 tp map recommended )

Age up with crates, in transi you want to build 2 tp and then looking for stage coach with your crate from the age up, as first card you have to send 600 :wood: and build a barrack with your travois, start to train toma, with your 600 :wood: you build a market hunting dogs, house and keep to train toma, generally once the stagecoach is searched you want to put your tp on :food: for a little while to make batch of 5 toma, send 4 kanya at second card for defend your tp you should be able to have 4 kanya and 5 toma at 6 min ( if your opponent has a lot of inf just research the BB then you can have 5 more toma at this time cut vills if necessarly ), then you have 2 options :
1) you send 5 vills and you continue to train infantry and as 4th card you send 800 create (you will be age 3 at 9 min30 but with a lot of eco)
2) the other option would be to skip the 5 vills and send the 800 crates and you will be age 3 at 8min 30
Once you reach age 3 classic 6 kanya card or 8 fp, research vet kanya as fast as possible and you can look the BB in your TC if you're under pressure

Water play :

For the water Play, it's currently difficult to explain in writing, but luckily my boy @Hazza54321 made a video that perfectly explains how to play them,



5) Match Ups :

Image an easy mu for hauds because hauds is just faster with better units
Build recommended : Fast Fortress, Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya, Semi FF stage coach

Image this mu can be quite difficult, most of the time spain wants ff rush or greedy ff but the falc timing can be annoying for hauds (especially rods skirm falc ), the only way to kill these falc is to snipe them with lots of musket rider or to try to send 1200 crates to pass age 4 (age up 2 light cannon) after your 6 kanya and 8 fp shipment if you cannot kill the 2 falcs but it's risky
Build recommended : Fast Fortress, Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya ( if spain logistician or just spain age 2 )

Image a mu quite easy for hauds, but never stay age 2 against russia because otherwise you lose, and also never try to rush the bh (I already tried it never worked), the only time you can push is when you are age 3,age your units are just unkillable for russia
Build recommended : Fast Fortress ( if russia bh in base or 17 vills age up for russia but take care of timing cuz russia can timing with a 17 vill age up ), Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya it's clearly the best build against russia ( can also send 7 aenna before crates if you think russia army will be too big )

Image easy mu for hauds, tbh i don't know what can ports do against hauds, maybe on water and its not even sure
Build recommended : Fast Fortress, Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya

Image in general otto wants ff but sometimes otto wants to take the tp and jan abus too (it can be quite difficult for hauds if otto has a very good micro) but
a lot of musket rider and forest prowlers is the compo you should have against otto
Build recommended : Fast Fortress ( if otto ff, also sometimes otto train new falc after the first one so you you really can't kill them just send 1200 create and age 4 for get the 2 light cannon from the age up ), Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya ( if otto take tp you can stay a bit longer age 2 like sending 7 aenna before create if otto will timing but do not stay age 2 in any case ), Also you should put this card against otto
Image

Image this mu is quite close but in general germany wants to timing xbow pike so you can't ff if you scout this timing, the compo you want early game is vet toma fp and vet kanya it's work pretty well if you semi ff
Build recommended : Fast Fortress ( if germany ff or start stable or even if he start rax in base but it's a bit risky ), Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya it's clearly the best build

Image this mu should be favoured hauds but it's quite close tbh, on this mu you take the map and contain your opponent, what is sure is the classic semi ff never works against dutch
Build recommended :Fast Fortress, Rush Fast age, Semi FF stage coach ( you have to put damage to dutch )

Image i don't like this mu, it's just brit favoured but hauds can definetly win with a perfect bo, most of the time you want to contain brit but with hauds it's pretty hard so you have to hit really good timing, for sure the semi ff against brit never work
Build recommended :Fast Fortress, Rush Fast age

Image this mu should be hauds favoured, the only thing swe can do is timing with leathers cannon or falc so just prepare yourself, but ofc if you let swe boom without any damage you will lose
Build recommended :Fast Fortress, Rush Fast age, Semi FF stage coach, Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya Also you should put this card against swe
Image

Image this mu should be fine for hauds, hauds army age 2 and 3 is just better than inca but the game doesn't have to be a long game because the eco inca will overtake you, the compo you should have is vet toma fp and vet kanya otherwise you can't siege inca building due to the lack of siege hauds can have age 3 with musket rider
Build recommended :Fast Fortress, Rush Fast age, Semi FF stage coach, Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya

Image this mu is quite close, take care of your travois if lakota fast age 4 axe rider though, in any case lakota should be aggressive so prepare yourself
Build recommended :Fast Fortress ( only if lakota ff or start stable eventually ), Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya ( can also stay a bit longer age 2 by sending 7 aenna before crates but do not stay age 2 too long, you have to age at some point i think )

Image the mirror is played very often age 2 and in general as soon as your opponent age this is where you hit your timing but you can clearly play it defensively, the most important cards on the mirror are the cav shipments that you must send at the right time, I recommend to send 7 aenna before 4 kanya age 2 ( if you not fast age ), also try to snare the opponent travois it's actually very important
Build recommended :Fast Fortress only if you scout a barrack in base, Rush Fast age, Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya

Image this mu is apprently good for hauds but from my experience it's more close than people think, usually india will rush you if he scouts an ff from you so prepare to defend but most of the time india will just play greedy the mu and he will build the agra in base, if india does that you have to ff and hit a big timing fp vet kanya and contain it as long as possible but be careful because india has a lot of mm and the mahout can be very boring when india is age 3, also the game shouldn't be too long because india eco is very strong and will outscale you very quickly
Build recommended :Fast Fortress, Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya, Also you should put this card against india
Image

Image this mu is quite close i would say, the most important is to scout the age 1 of japan, if ports cons or market, torii or the toshogu, its actually very important because its gonna decide your game plan
Build recommended :Fast Fortress if japan start with ports cons ( you have to hit a timing vet kanya forest prowlers ), Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya if japan torii or market age 1 toshogu ( you know he will be a bit aggressive this game ), Rush Fast age if japan ports cons, Semi FF stage coach if japan ports cons

Image this mu is quite close,the most important thing is to scout your opponent on which consulate he chooses (for example german he will play greedy, russia bh in base or not), at the moment people like to play china age 2 by sending 7 steppe first and to go rush your tp, scout your opponent it's very important on this mu, a tips i can also give is be careful when you siege a village because there may be a unit shipment at any time which can pop and destroy your army, what is certain is that age 2 china against hauds age 2 in late game china wins
Build recommended :Fast Fortress if china ff you can ff safely and you have to hit a timing for contain china, you must to not let china mass for free, take advantage of your army which is stronger in the early stages to take good trades, Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya if china play the consulate card or if he 7 steppes first for exemple but don't lose your army for nothing age 2

Image this mu should be fine for hauds, in general usa just want ff and timing with musk and gatling, usa age 2 i don't think its can beat hauds age 2 in late game, usa can just play with fort towers etc age 4 so if you scout it you can send 1200 crates and age 4 and push with your light cannon, also the usa musk have 14 range so be careful when you try to snipe the gatling guns with your musket rider
Build recommended :Fast Fortress favor musket riders over kanya on this mu, Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya if usa play age 2 which can happens, Also you should put this card against usa
Image

ImageI haven't played this mu a lot but I think it should be good for hauds, in general I watch where the opponent places his haciendas (fb or not) if he fb he's going to rush you so prefer to play age 2 a bit for example, if it's inbase I think you can ff but still be careful with all these revo xD
Build recommended :Fast Fortress, Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya

Imageregarding this mu i don't really know but i think it should be closed, what is sure is that you can't play age 2 against ethiopia because 8 canoneers shipment so try to age 3 at some point , also be careful ethiopian mortar can be quite hard to kill for hauds if your opponent ff and hits a timing with this mortar
Build recommended :Fast Fortress, Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya if your opponent do some sort of timing age 2 with outlaws or whatever unit is xD

Image pretty much the same with ethiopia, I don't really know but for sure you can't play it age 2 because of 12 dervish shipment and insane outlaws
Build recommended :
Fast Fortress, Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya if your opponent do some sort of timing age 2

Image i think this mu is pretty close due to the ton of crossbow pike who can get malta age 2, in general malta will want to try to play aggressive but i saw some ff bo with cannon armored pistolero age 3, pay attention to that, this mu you should play it age 3 i think because crossbow pike huss of malta is just stronger than hauds age 2, so must try to age at some point for sure
Build recommended :Fast Fortress if malta get german tongue in transi age 1or just if he ff, Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya if malta play it aggressively also prefer the aenna over the toma for this mu, malta will almost always start crossbow pike

Image this mu should be fine for hauds, even if the mercs card of italy can be very strong so be careful, in general italy will not try to play this mu age 2 but it can happen, italy will especially play this mu age 4 which can be hard for hauds then prepare for timing your opponent if you scout this, if it happens also prepare to send the 1200 crates card for age 4 you will need your light cannon if your opponent manages to send the bombard
Build recommended :Fast Fortress italy can also ff musk cannon and mercs card after this, be careful, Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya this build is clearly safe if italy play a bit age 2, Semi FF stage coach can be an option too, i think hauds age 2 is better than italy but again take care of mercs shipment


I hope this guide can help some players to learn haudenausonee, of course this guide is certainly not perfect and maybe I play badly some mu for sure, but I really wanted to make this guide since it is currently not easy to find guides for this civ
I put the 4 most classic and easiest builds to make but I plan to add a little more complex builds in the future :D
Also I don't know why the writing is in bold I can't remove it lol but it doesn't matter don't pay attention to it
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No Flag Kanoo
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by Kanoo »

Wow, finally a much-needed Haudenosaunee guide! Thank you Kevin, bookmarked for reference. :)
thebritish wrote:
19 Jan 2016, 09:58
So, you are saying that if i watch H20's rec, i can beat anyone below H20's level because i know his BO?
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by Miyawaki Sakura »

thx
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by komendi »

Thank you!
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by edgarbaeza »

You are God.
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by ziper »

Nice guide! I also like playing Haud, but I stuck at 1600 elo and struggle in some MU. So I have to ask:

1. How to survive from a musket+falconet push?
Maybe French sff, Ethio sff, Otto ff, Italian sff, Swedish sff or USA ff.
Usually my opponents have artillery + 20~30 muskets depending on time, while I have about 15-20 cav (kanya or mr) and 8fp.
I always failed to kill the artillery and feed my cav.

2. How to play age-2 after my first rush
When I choose to 15 toma/4 kanya rush, I could stay in my opponent's base and kill his units if he is unprepared. But sometimes my opponents have tower or wall in their base, or have sent military card (typically British, Japanese, Swedish, and Hausa), so I have to retreat. Then what should I do ? I can neither win these civs in late age2, nor go to age3 quickly. For Japanese and Swedish I could burnt down a few houses but this doesn't damage my opponent a lot.
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by kevinitalien »

ziper wrote:
06 Jul 2022, 20:44
Nice guide! I also like playing Haud, but I stuck at 1600 elo and struggle in some MU. So I have to ask:

1. How to survive from a musket+falconet push?
Maybe French sff, Ethio sff, Otto ff, Italian sff, Swedish sff or USA ff.
Usually my opponents have artillery + 20~30 muskets depending on time, while I have about 15-20 cav (kanya or mr) and 8fp.
I always failed to kill the artillery and feed my cav.
you should win this fight with these 20 mr, but when you play against a civ that counts a lot with falc you always have to train a lot of mr before anything, be mobile with your mr your opponent can't be mobile with these falc but yeah should win with mr against 25 musk and 2 falc if you micro a bit, and if you have 8 fp behind it's perfect
ziper wrote:
06 Jul 2022, 20:44
2. How to play age-2 after my first rush
When I choose to 15 toma/4 kanya rush, I could stay in his base and kill his units if my opponents are unprepared. But sometimes my opponents have tower or wall in their base, or have sent military card (typically British, Japanese, Swedish, and Hausa), so I have to retreat. Then what should I do ? I can neither win these civs in late age2, nor go to age3 quickly. For Japanese and Swedish I could burnt down a few houses but this doesn't damage my opponent a lot.
in fact you have to anticipate your opponent's shipments and above all you have to anticipate your macro, for example as soon as you know you have to age start macroing your vills on food and gold and don't wait for exemple your crate shipment for macro your vills, if the opponent makes a lot of walls just controls the map, stagecoach destroy shrine and torp everywhere, raid mine, you have to contain him so that he have to get out of his base on his own, you don't have to push his base full of walls or smth because that's what your opponent wants in fact, so you have to outsmart him and force him out of his base but ofc you have to mass for defend when he will out, but generally i just age and get better unit better eco etc, if its sea map for exemple and a lot of wall you have to hit a great timing age 4 but it's pretty hard yeah
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

Great guide !
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by Kanoo »

When do you get market + hunting dogs with the "Semi FF 15 tomahawks 4 kanya" build?
thebritish wrote:
19 Jan 2016, 09:58
So, you are saying that if i watch H20's rec, i can beat anyone below H20's level because i know his BO?
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by fei123456 »

Water dance has been nerfed into underground. No reason to have it in deck now.
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by kevinitalien »

Kanoo wrote:
07 Jul 2022, 08:12
When do you get market + hunting dogs with the "Semi FF 15 tomahawks 4 kanya" build?
in transition age 1 to age 2, if you docks start you market hunting dogs with 800 crates
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by Kanoo »

Thank you, again!
thebritish wrote:
19 Jan 2016, 09:58
So, you are saying that if i watch H20's rec, i can beat anyone below H20's level because i know his BO?
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

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Post by chronique »

Randomely lurking on the forum and i see that :D . Plop member are always doing the job as i can see.
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by Rohbrot »

chronique wrote:
08 Jul 2022, 20:18
Randomely lurking on the forum and i see that :D . Plop member are always doing the job as i can see.
Seinsei!!!
:chinese:
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by chronique »

Rohbrot wrote:
08 Jul 2022, 20:43
chronique wrote:
08 Jul 2022, 20:18
Randomely lurking on the forum and i see that :D . Plop member are always doing the job as i can see.
Seinsei!!!
:chinese:
Not anymore XD
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by MMFD »

@kevinitalien Is there a deck that you would recommend for team games with haude?
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by kevinitalien »

MMFD wrote:
09 Jul 2022, 17:13
@kevinitalien Is there a deck that you would recommend for team games with haude?
2v2 :
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3v3 :
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Team water :
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by Kanoo »

Please add to the strategy wall. Thank you!
thebritish wrote:
19 Jan 2016, 09:58
So, you are saying that if i watch H20's rec, i can beat anyone below H20's level because i know his BO?
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by musketeer925 »

Kanoo wrote:
10 Jul 2022, 13:04
Please add to the strategy wall. Thank you!
Just approved it on the wall. Didn't see this thread earlier!
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by Afroholic »

Great topic, thx @kevinitalien
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by Challenger_Marco »

Where is Aztecs in MU section? i played vs it thought i would get some insight on how to play it well from here
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Re: Haudenosaunee Guide

Post by Hawk_Girl »

what build do you do for stage builds into age 2 mass? 3v 600w 5v then units?
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