My thoughts regarding the tourney

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Netherlands don_artie
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My thoughts regarding the tourney

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Post by don_artie »

Hey there, I wanted to make a post regarding the tourney and share some of my thoughts as someone who is looking in from the outside sometimes. Also a little bit about me for those that care and would like an update.

So first of all regarding me: (you can skip this part of the post).

I've always thought it's silly how people feel like you have to pick 1 game and stick with it, I like aoe3 and aoe4 both. However aoe3 and aoe4 tourneys are running at the same time and I had to pick (hard to play 2 competitive rts competitively), I decided on aoe4. There will be a 300k lan in oktober that I'm trying to qualify for, 16 people get to go and I probably rank around 25th or so. Chances of me making it are small, maybe 5 to 10%, but I'm trying. The top players are very good and I'm struggling to find a win against them.

Now regarding the aoe3 tourney:

I've been following it somewhat and wanted to share some thoughts. I think right now skill is not rewarded enough and it's too much about build orders, OP units or just coinflippy games. I believe to improve the overall quality of the tourney some things should be considered by either an admin team or a poll on the players.

Civ balance/diversity:

I think certain civs are too dominant and it's causing mirrors or straight up civ wins. I think introducing civ bans would be great, right now aoe3 has like 20 civs or something, if every series had 2 bans (excluding italy/malta) this would push players deeper into their pool and give more strategic depth. Right now with italy and malta being forced by the tourney if there are other civs broken then basically all civs are forced (italy, malta, broken civs). I played the ace of spades tourney recently and me and kaister had to play 14 civs total in the bo7 which was hard but did make the game more skill based because you're doing it less on build orders imo.

Banning certain units/techs etc:

In aoe4 when something is considered too strong it is outright banned in tourneys. That used to apply to a healing tech and still applies to stone towers and a unit buffing tech. I think aoe3 could benefit from this as well if decided after a poll or decided by an admin team. If certain nats or mercs or other things are just too strong this could be considered.

People have probably already practiced strats so too sudden changes could negatively affect them, perhaps finish the qualifiers as is to reward this preperation but I personally recommend making changes for the main event. In my own opnion adding some rules will end up rewarding skill more and lead to a better experience for the viewers and players.
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by look »

not everyone has the Don
i just want the game to focus on normal units again, today it's all about nat merc y stolen units.
and the option to ban from 3civs before starting a competitive match, sometimes it's cancerous to have to play certain MU
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China ziper
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by ziper »

don_artie wrote:
01 Aug 2022, 10:32
I think right now skill is not rewarded enough and it's too much about build orders, OP units or just coinflippy games.
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by iNcog »

build orders over mechanics is aoe3 atm, unfortunately. I like OP suggestions, though this is a heated topic
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by LionHeart »

@don_artie what would you have banned out of curiosity?
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by Challenger_Marco »

iNcog wrote:
01 Aug 2022, 16:15
build orders over mechanics is aoe3 atm, unfortunately. I like OP suggestions, though this is a heated topic
21 True piro is in top 100 so this game is about build order boting
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Netherlands don_artie
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by don_artie »

LionHeart wrote:
01 Aug 2022, 16:18
@don_artie what would you have banned out of curiosity?
Certain nats and mercs seem to have too good stats from I have seen, but idk the names. Crabats or something? Also if you meant civ wise it depends on the opponent but probably lakota/china/otto
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

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Post by I_HaRRiiSoN_I »

As far as im aware the tournament rules have been agreed with the tournament sponsors so our hands are tied.
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by don_artie »

I_HaRRiiSoN_I wrote:
01 Aug 2022, 19:10
As far as im aware the tournament rules have been agreed with the tournament sponsors so our hands are tied.
Regarding italy/malta yea, and thats fine. But I'm sure some other stuff could be worked out. Civ bans really belong in this game imo
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by iamgaming »

It will make us not able to see players playing their best civs, though most players seem to have British as their best civ.
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

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Post by n0el »

don_artie wrote:
01 Aug 2022, 19:12
I_HaRRiiSoN_I wrote:
01 Aug 2022, 19:10
As far as im aware the tournament rules have been agreed with the tournament sponsors so our hands are tied.
Regarding italy/malta yea, and thats fine. But I'm sure some other stuff could be worked out. Civ bans really belong in this game imo
the group and bracket stages will have a civ ban for both players. i am excited to see the results of that.
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by don_artie »

iamgaming wrote:
01 Aug 2022, 20:05
It will make us not able to see players playing their best civs, though most players seem to have British as their best civ.
I disagree, people are currently not playing their mains due to being 'forced' to play certain OP civs. Bans could result in people playing their mains and more unique picks
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by Garja »

What are the OP civs btw. To me it seems civs are more or less close and best civs are usually main civs anyway.
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by kevinitalien »

Garja wrote:
01 Aug 2022, 21:07
What are the OP civs btw. To me it seems civs are more or less close and best civs are usually main civs anyway.
Lakota, China and Germany ( on crabat map ) imo
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by callentournies »

you could also use the bans on inca and spain
off topic is dead
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by Garja »

kevinitalien wrote:
01 Aug 2022, 22:20
Garja wrote:
01 Aug 2022, 21:07
What are the OP civs btw. To me it seems civs are more or less close and best civs are usually main civs anyway.
Lakota, China and Germany ( on crabat map ) imo
Ye Lakota 200w is actually like RE Iro, you can bully lot of MUs with that. I guess if people were to know what Iro RE meant then they would prepare counter strats in the sort of turtling with eco civs like Inca. But I imagine most players don't take the time to do that so Lakota is a very strong meta pick.
China is ofc tier1 but don't know if OP. Very strong but it's not like you can dictate games so that it's a forced pick.
Idk about Germany. Doesn't seem anything special to me atm. I guess doing the merc strat with crabats can be quite good but it's a one trick pony. Also I think the unit is overrated even with the promotion mechanic and German merc card (which btw does actually affect outlaws?) because RI still trades very well per cost (and crabat is also a 4pop unit so can't mass an inifnite number like you can with much cheaper RI).
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by helln00 »

Garja wrote:
01 Aug 2022, 23:38
kevinitalien wrote:
01 Aug 2022, 22:20
Garja wrote:
01 Aug 2022, 21:07
What are the OP civs btw. To me it seems civs are more or less close and best civs are usually main civs anyway.
Lakota, China and Germany ( on crabat map ) imo
Ye Lakota 200w is actually like RE Iro, you can bully lot of MUs with that. I guess if people were to know what Iro RE meant then they would prepare counter strats in the sort of turtling with eco civs like Inca. But I imagine most players don't take the time to do that so Lakota is a very strong meta pick.
China is ofc tier1 but don't know if OP. Very strong but it's not like you can dictate games so that it's a forced pick.
Idk about Germany. Doesn't seem anything special to me atm. I guess doing the merc strat with crabats can be quite good but it's a one trick pony. Also I think the unit is overrated even with the promotion mechanic and German merc card (which btw does actually affect outlaws?) because RI still trades very well per cost (and crabat is also a 4pop unit so can't mass an inifnite number like you can with much cheaper RI).
The merc combat doesn't affect outlaws but Germany has the benefit of the settler wagons + silversmith for the gold income, better pop management with the settlement card and also the team cav combat card in age 2 which affects crabats so its a pretty strong contender, I am sort of surprised no one has tried making crabats work with brits though since they theoretically should have the strongest crabats with +30% from all the combat cards
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by dicktator_ »

I kinda thought Italy is the strongest crabat civ simply because they can train them from multiple buildings
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by Hawk_Girl »

which nats are the op ones?
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by Kanoo »

Can't we just ban crabats already?
thebritish wrote:
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So, you are saying that if i watch H20's rec, i can beat anyone below H20's level because i know his BO?
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Re: My thoughts regarding the tourney

Post by ShinkuroYukinari »

Crabati kicking ass is actually rather historical, given how much they were sought after for their combat prowess :)
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