Trample mode

General forum about Age of Empires 3 DE. Please post strategy threads, recorded games, user-created content and tech support threads in their respective forum.
Vietnam duckzilla
Jaeger
Posts: 2497
Joined: Jun 26, 2016

Trample mode

Post by duckzilla »

Does anyone have more detailed information on how trample mode works for cavalry units?

The wiki is quite vague about its functionality with:
Available to hand cavalry, the trample mode grants it an Area of Effect, at the expense of slower speed, lower attack and increased damage taken.
It raises further questions on the exact values for speed/attack reduction and, especially, on increased damage taken. I think cavalry in trample mode also harms itself, but didn't find anything about it...
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Beati pauperes spiritu.
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: Trample mode

Post by harcha »

This is just from the top of my head, so someone should correct with actual values:
-sets area of effect to 1 for hand attack,
-sets hand attack to like 0.75 times the normal value,
-halves speed,
-not sure how damage that is taken is affected, maybe 2x?
Interestingly enough for the longest time Cuirs had this bug where default area effect is 2, but in trample mode area is reduced to 1 and attack also got reduced.


But if you look at the wikia, it seems like now it's fixed:
-area from 2 to 4
-hand attack reduced and rof prolonged
https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Cuirassier
However when comparing to Hussar of wikia, it's not clear as to exact multipliers/values that are used.


So it looks like it affects 5 variables:
-increased area
-reduced attack
-prolonged rate of fire
-reduced unit movement speed
-increased damage taken
*and as a bonus you get that cool V-shaped army formation
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Great Britain andrewgs
Musketeer
Posts: 96
Joined: Dec 15, 2020

Re: Trample mode

Post by andrewgs »

<protoaction>
<name>MeleeHandAttack</name>
<damage>25.000000</damage>
<damagetype>Hand</damagetype>
<rof>1.500000</rof>
<damagecap>50.000000</damagecap>
<damagearea>2.000000</damagearea>
<damageflags>Enemy</damageflags>
</protoaction>
<protoaction>
<name>TrampleHandAttack</name>
<damage>17.000000</damage>
<damagetype>Hand</damagetype>
<rof>2.000000</rof>
<damagecap>68.000000</damagecap>
<damagearea>4.000000</damagearea>
<damageflags>Enemy</damageflags>
</protoaction>
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: Trample mode

Post by harcha »

Ok, so that just means that there doesn't necessarily have to be a x times damage reduction, y times area increase and z times rof nerf, which would be equal across all hand cav, because each unit is defined separately.
But what about increased damage input and lower unit speed?
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Great Britain andrewgs
Musketeer
Posts: 96
Joined: Dec 15, 2020

Re: Trample mode

Post by andrewgs »

My untested guess is:
damage input increase is caught in the damage cap (50 vs 68)

lower speed is defined in handcavalry.tactics
<tactic>Trample<speedmodifier>0.5</speedmodifier>...


see this thread
viewtopic.php?t=7577
noone tested anything tho
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: Trample mode

Post by harcha »

Damage cap is for damage output, but trample mode is also supposed to change damage intake from enemy units.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
User avatar
Sweden Madonna
Crossbow
Posts: 3
Joined: Jan 7, 2023
Clan: SNBRO

Re: Trample mode

Post by Madonna »

Do people use trample mode? I find it tempting sometimes if you find a huge group of villagers around a mine for example but afterwards i always wonder if the damage done to my cav was worth it.
Rainbow Land callentournies
Howdah
Posts: 1676
Joined: May 6, 2021
ESO: esuck

Re: Trample mode

Post by callentournies »

it's about time trample mode promotes
If I were a petal
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: Trample mode

Post by harcha »

Madonna wrote: ↑
10 Jan 2023, 20:08
Do people use trample mode? I find it tempting sometimes if you find a huge group of villagers around a mine for example but afterwards i always wonder if the damage done to my cav was worth it.
Yeah I wonder if area hand attack does area snare.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Vietnam duckzilla
Jaeger
Posts: 2497
Joined: Jun 26, 2016

Re: Trample mode

Post by duckzilla »

Madonna wrote: ↑
10 Jan 2023, 20:08
Do people use trample mode? I find it tempting sometimes if you find a huge group of villagers around a mine for example but afterwards i always wonder if the damage done to my cav was worth it.
I just wonder whether it can be worth it, e.g. for Hakkapelits (who have both relatively high hp and melee dmg for their unit class) with that trample mode attack speed buff card.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Beati pauperes spiritu.
Great Britain andrewgs
Musketeer
Posts: 96
Joined: Dec 15, 2020

Re: Trample mode

Post by andrewgs »

harcha wrote: ↑
10 Jan 2023, 17:37
Damage cap is for damage output, but trample mode is also supposed to change damage intake from enemy units.
battle.xml
<squadmode>
<name>Trample</name>
<tactic>Trample</tactic>
<allowautopick>0</allowautopick>
<unittype>AbstractHandCavalry</unittype>
<unittype>deNatRoyalDragoon</unittype>
<unittype>deNatMercRoyalDragoon</unittype>
<targetunittype>All</targetunittype>
<stance>Defensive</stance>
<formationtype>InvertedPhalanx</formationtype>
<formationlinelinespacing>1.5</formationlinelinespacing>
<formationlinecolumnspacing>1.15</formationlinecolumnspacing>
<formationphalanxoffset>0.7</formationphalanxoffset>
<randomspacingoffset>0.25</randomspacingoffset>
<cooldowntime>5000</cooldowntime>
<transitiontimein>500</transitiontimein>
<activeicon>resources\images\icons\command\tactics_trample_cur.png</activeicon>
<availableicon>resources\images\icons\command\tactics_trample_avl.png</availableicon>
<unavailableicon>resources\images\icons\command\tactics_trample_un_avl.png</unavailableicon>
<rolloverstringid>35908</rolloverstringid>
<reflectdamage>1</reflectdamage>
<reflectdamagerate>0.35</reflectdamagerate>

<battlecrysmall>BattlecrySmall</battlecrysmall>
<battlecrymedium>BattlecryMedium</battlecrymedium>
<battlecrylarge>BattlecryLarge</battlecrylarge>
</squadmode>
User avatar
United States of America iCourt
Retired Contributor
Posts: 700
Joined: Jan 14, 2016
ESO: iCourt
Location: Monterey, California

Re: Trample mode

Post by iCourt »

Trample mode needs a rework from the ground up, or just replace it with an actual useful formation similar to stagger formation.
User avatar
United States of America dutchdude117
ESOC Community Team
Posts: 228
Joined: Apr 24, 2015
ESO: Dutchdude117
Location: USA California

Re: Trample mode

Post by dutchdude117 »

andrewgs wrote: ↑
11 Jan 2023, 11:45
harcha wrote: ↑
10 Jan 2023, 17:37
Damage cap is for damage output, but trample mode is also supposed to change damage intake from enemy units.
battle.xml
<squadmode>
<name>Trample</name>
<tactic>Trample</tactic>
<allowautopick>0</allowautopick>
<unittype>AbstractHandCavalry</unittype>
<unittype>deNatRoyalDragoon</unittype>
<unittype>deNatMercRoyalDragoon</unittype>
<targetunittype>All</targetunittype>
<stance>Defensive</stance>
<formationtype>InvertedPhalanx</formationtype>
<formationlinelinespacing>1.5</formationlinelinespacing>
<formationlinecolumnspacing>1.15</formationlinecolumnspacing>
<formationphalanxoffset>0.7</formationphalanxoffset>
<randomspacingoffset>0.25</randomspacingoffset>
<cooldowntime>5000</cooldowntime>
<transitiontimein>500</transitiontimein>
<activeicon>resources\images\icons\command\tactics_trample_cur.png</activeicon>
<availableicon>resources\images\icons\command\tactics_trample_avl.png</availableicon>
<unavailableicon>resources\images\icons\command\tactics_trample_un_avl.png</unavailableicon>
<rolloverstringid>35908</rolloverstringid>
<reflectdamage>1</reflectdamage>
<reflectdamagerate>0.35</reflectdamagerate>

<battlecrysmall>BattlecrySmall</battlecrysmall>
<battlecrymedium>BattlecryMedium</battlecrymedium>
<battlecrylarge>BattlecryLarge</battlecrylarge>
</squadmode>
@andrewgs
Is it possible for you to explain a bit more what this means (if you know)? what is reflect damage and reflect damage rate.

Thanks for showing this to us!
User avatar
United States of America dutchdude117
ESOC Community Team
Posts: 228
Joined: Apr 24, 2015
ESO: Dutchdude117
Location: USA California

Re: Trample mode

Post by dutchdude117 »

Vietnam duckzilla
Jaeger
Posts: 2497
Joined: Jun 26, 2016

Re: Trample mode

Post by duckzilla »

Receives 50% of the damage it deals back (Of all units damaged). Also affected by multipliers (A cavalry unit that has 30 trample damage and 2X vs infantry receives 30 damage when attacking 1 skirmisher).
Okay, that's just plain stupid.

I also like the tests:
Hussars vs skirmishers (Open field, enemy AI in [hardest], skirmishers standing ground).

1v1
In normal mode, the hussar won and lost 18HP.
In trample mode he won and lost 105HP, and micro to get them close first don’t do much either
1v3
In normal mode, the hussar won and lost around 160HP.
In trample mode he LOST, micro to 1 hit skirmishers after trample mode made him Win and survive with 3HP.
3v10
In normal mode, the hussars won and lost 439 collective HP.
In trample mode they LOST, horribly and painfully, barely killing half of the skirmishers.
It also means that the tankier a skirm is, the worse trample mode becomes, as you just trade hp between your cav and the other unit. Killing a batch of 10 strels would mean taking >400dmg yourself additionally to ranged dmg taken by the strels.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Beati pauperes spiritu.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV