Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

General forum about Age of Empires 3 DE. Please post strategy threads, recorded games, user-created content and tech support threads in their respective forum.
User avatar
United States of America dutchdude117
ESOC Community Team
Posts: 228
Joined: Apr 24, 2015
ESO: Dutchdude117
Location: USA California

Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

  • Quote

Post by dutchdude117 »

https://clips.twitch.tv/IcySecretiveCra ... WF6dY-GQTh

Clip from ESOC Winter Tournament.

Image

https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/ottom ... ets/248464

Affected this series: viewtopic.php?p=590698#p590698

Observe as the French falconets shots fire and literally as their cannon balls are traveling, Ottoman Topçular shipment arrives. Thus the Ottoman falconets are able to survive the French falconet attack.

Very lame for any Falconet vs Falconet fight, a situation which much of the game is balanced around.

I wonder if Hazza knew that this card even buffs his falconet and waited for this timing, or did he just send it to buff his Abus gunners?
Rainbow Land callentournies
Howdah
Posts: 1667
Joined: May 6, 2021
ESO: esuck

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

Post by callentournies »

Huh
If I were a petal
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
User avatar
Brazil look
Howdah
Posts: 1405
Joined: Jun 4, 2015
ESO: LoOk_tOm
Location: Brasil, UK

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

Post by look »

"Artillery", Abus gunners and grenade

use brain before post something

thanks!
Kaiser sucks
Garja Noob
grunt the best
Kickass God
BSOP OP
User avatar
France Guigs
Tournament Admin
Posts: 938
Joined: Jan 22, 2017
ESO: Guigs
Location: France

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

Post by Guigs »

dutchdude117 wrote:
05 Feb 2024, 00:22
https://clips.twitch.tv/IcySecretiveCra ... WF6dY-GQTh

Clip from ESOC Winter Tournament.

Image

https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/ottom ... ets/248464

Affected this series: viewtopic.php?p=590698#p590698

Observe as the French falconets shots fire and literally as their cannon balls are traveling, Ottoman Topçular shipment arrives. Thus the Ottoman falconets are able to survive the French falconet attack.

Very lame for any Falconet vs Falconet fight, a situation which much of the game is balanced around.

I wonder if Hazza knew that this card even buffs his falconet and waited for this timing, or did he just send it to buff his Abus gunners?
He knew, and yes this card change is stupid as otto will now win every 2 falcs vs 2 falcs fight
Image

Image
Italy MaxMagous
Skirmisher
Posts: 112
Joined: Aug 2, 2019
ESO: MaxMagous

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

Post by MaxMagous »

In a competitive game solely decided by which player competitively right clicks cannon with cannon one tenth of a second earlier regardless of what happened until that point and irrespective of whatever would have happened afterwards, it sounds like a pretty good buff
look wrote:
01 Jul 2022, 08:55
Kaiserklein wrote:
01 Jul 2022, 07:42
Well nvm, none of these dates work for me
who care? unfortunately, one must decide to be an aoe3 pro or not
User avatar
Suriname kaister
Lancer
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 715
Joined: Jun 25, 2015
ESO: I Date My Cousin

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

  • Quote

Post by kaister »

while the card is good, don't think its overly broken. the only break point it effects is 2 falcs now dont 1 shot a falc. falcs still get 2 shot by culvs, ect. very specific scenario and can probably fool someone the first time they see it. In that specific case I think Jan combat woulda actually been more effective than Topçular and nobody is saying jan combat is OP. Hazza basically got 1 extra falc shot and ungurs had to use an extra shot on hazzas 10 hp falc.
Korea South wingardium
Crossbow
Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 7, 2023

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

  • Quote

Post by wingardium »

tbh this doesnt seem that op when compared to other stuff otto has
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10276
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

  • Quote

Post by Kaiserklein »

I do think it's too good tbh, 3 vs 2 shots is huge. I think any treaty player could confirm that those break points are massive.

In a 2 falcs war, without other units shooting at falcs, you end up having 1 full hp falc vs 0. That's because on the second volley, while your opponent's only remaining falc shoots at your surviving 30 hp falc, your 2 falcs shoot his.
Even if they have 3 falcs and you have 2, you'll just trade even. Both sides have 1 dead falc from first volley. On second volley you have a 30 hp falc and they have a 100 hp falc + a full hp falc. On third volley you have 0 falc and they have 1 full hp falc, e.g you both lost 2 falcs overall.
Obviously it's possible to commit with units to snipe the 30 hp falc, but as we all know it's usually an expensive trade.

Now add culvs to that. They get 322 hp after the card, that's 3 culvs shots to die. Exactly the same maths as falcs, it's 3 vs 2 shots which is insane. You may argue that it's only 2 hp left as opposed to 30 for falcs, but culvs have much more range so they're always in the back, so sniping that 2 hp is super hard.

Remember when people complained about malta getting extra hp on art? This is the same issue, but worse.

Now, this could be okay if it wasn't just a "side effect" of a combat card on otto's best unit lol. Having a combat card for skirms is great already, on abus it's even better, now imagine basically getting the guard upgrade on your artillery (it's almost the same tbh) as well.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
Brazil look
Howdah
Posts: 1405
Joined: Jun 4, 2015
ESO: LoOk_tOm
Location: Brasil, UK

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

Post by look »

Kaiserklein wrote:
08 Feb 2024, 11:03
I do think it's too good tbh, 3 vs 2 shots is huge. I think any treaty player could confirm that those break points are massive.

In a 2 falcs war, without other units shooting at falcs, you end up having 1 full hp falc vs 0. That's because on the second volley, while your opponent's only remaining falc shoots at your surviving 30 hp falc, your 2 falcs shoot his.
Even if they have 3 falcs and you have 2, you'll just trade even. Both sides have 1 dead falc from first volley. On second volley both sides you have a 30 hp falc and they have a 100 hp falc + a full hp falc. On third volley you have 0 falc and they have 1 falc, e.g you both lost 2 falcs overall.
Obviously it's possible to commit with units to snipe the 30 hp falc, but as we all know it's usually an expensive trade.

Now add culvs to that. They get 322 hp after the card, that's 3 culvs shots to die. Exactly the same maths as falcs, it's 3 vs 2 shots which is insane. You may argue that it's only 2 hp left as opposed to 30 for falcs, but culvs have much more range so they're always in the back, so sniping that 2 hp is super hard.

Remember when people complained about malta getting extra hp on art? This is the same issue, but worse.

Now, this could be okay if it wasn't just a "side effect" of a combat card on otto's best unit lol. Having a combat card for skirms is great already, on abus it's even better, now imagine basically getting the guard upgrade on your artillery (it's almost the same tbh) as well.
You talked and talked and talkek, but didn't make up your mind whether the card is OP or not.
It seems you're always on the verge of indecision; you have to make up your mind, just like deciding whether to be a pro or not.
Kaiser sucks
Garja Noob
grunt the best
Kickass God
BSOP OP
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3279
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

Post by fei123456 »

So what? Ottoman is designed as artillery civ so it should have better cannons.
In aoe2 there are Celts with tanky siege weapons, Korean with long range catapults, mongols with fast rams... Many of which doesn't even need a tech Or a shipment. Why don't you complain about that?
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9717
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

Post by Garja »

fei123456 wrote:
09 Feb 2024, 06:31
So what? Ottoman is designed as artillery civ so it should have better cannons.
In aoe2 there are Celts with tanky siege weapons, Korean with long range catapults, mongols with fast rams... Many of which doesn't even need a tech Or a shipment. Why don't you complain about that?
It's specifically because of the 2falc battle which was often key in aoe3. It doesn't help that Otto is currently one of the best civs.
Image Image Image
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8048
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

  • Quote

Post by Hazza54321 »

people just nerfing my huge brain
User avatar
New Zealand ocemilky
Dragoon
Posts: 204
Joined: Aug 5, 2015
ESO: Motch | Milky__

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

Post by ocemilky »

Kaiserklein wrote:
08 Feb 2024, 11:03
I do think it's too good tbh, 3 vs 2 shots is huge. I think any treaty player could confirm that those break points are massive.

In a 2 falcs war, without other units shooting at falcs, you end up having 1 full hp falc vs 0. That's because on the second volley, while your opponent's only remaining falc shoots at your surviving 30 hp falc, your 2 falcs shoot his.
Even if they have 3 falcs and you have 2, you'll just trade even. Both sides have 1 dead falc from first volley. On second volley you have a 30 hp falc and they have a 100 hp falc + a full hp falc. On third volley you have 0 falc and they have 1 full hp falc, e.g you both lost 2 falcs overall.
Obviously it's possible to commit with units to snipe the 30 hp falc, but as we all know it's usually an expensive trade.

Now add culvs to that. They get 322 hp after the card, that's 3 culvs shots to die. Exactly the same maths as falcs, it's 3 vs 2 shots which is insane. You may argue that it's only 2 hp left as opposed to 30 for falcs, but culvs have much more range so they're always in the back, so sniping that 2 hp is super hard.

Remember when people complained about malta getting extra hp on art? This is the same issue, but worse.

Now, this could be okay if it wasn't just a "side effect" of a combat card on otto's best unit lol. Having a combat card for skirms is great already, on abus it's even better, now imagine basically getting the guard upgrade on your artillery (it's almost the same tbh) as well.
I remember in treaty on RE having otto and Port on the same team was broken in 3v3. Normally all artillery gets 2 shot by culvs aside from Heavy Cannon, but both Port and Otto had team artillery HP cards making your culv take 3 culv shots to die.. now that was super broken

In this situation, it wouldn't seem so OP if Otto weren't already strong, it does take up an entire card
sergyou wrote:i won't even bother reply to ur posts anymore and id like u to the same and not quote me
howlingwolfpaw wrote:cognitive dissonance is what people suffer from when refusing to look at 9/11 truth.
User avatar
United States of America dicktator_
Howdah
EWT
Posts: 1564
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
ESO: Conquerer999

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

Post by dicktator_ »

Yeah it seems too good to me. It's not just the 2 falc vs 2 falc breakpoint, although that already lets you trade 1 falc for 2 with even micro being worth half a shipment on its own. It's also a combat card for abus, and on top of that it buffs artillery attack. I think there already have to be abus on the field for it to be worth sending over like jan combat or spahi etc, so it might only be op with semis where the otto player made some abus in age 2. In the clip I think it was worth it because Hazza had 7 abus.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
:mds:
User avatar
New Zealand ocemilky
Dragoon
Posts: 204
Joined: Aug 5, 2015
ESO: Motch | Milky__

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

Post by ocemilky »

dicktator_ wrote:
09 Feb 2024, 22:53
Yeah it seems too good to me. It's not just the 2 falc vs 2 falc breakpoint, although that already lets you trade 1 falc for 2 with even micro being worth half a shipment on its own. It's also a combat card for abus, and on top of that it buffs artillery attack. I think there already have to be abus on the field for it to be worth sending over like jan combat or spahi etc, so it might only be op with semis where the otto player made some abus in age 2. In the clip I think it was worth it because Hazza had 7 abus.
Maybe too situational to be OP? It's a good card no doubt about that, but if it's not something you send every time you have falc out then it's probably not OP
sergyou wrote:i won't even bother reply to ur posts anymore and id like u to the same and not quote me
howlingwolfpaw wrote:cognitive dissonance is what people suffer from when refusing to look at 9/11 truth.
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10276
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

Post by Kaiserklein »

ocemilky wrote:
09 Feb 2024, 23:04
Maybe too situational to be OP? It's a good card no doubt about that, but if it's not something you send every time you have falc out then it's probably not OP
But you're gonna go abus anyway in a lot of situations. You can have leftover abus from age 2, the shipment of 6, possibly even a 4 abus age up. And just train them too because the unit is super strong. A combat card on them is really nice on its own already. And then the card is OP because your artillery also suddenly wins every trade.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
Suriname kaister
Lancer
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 715
Joined: Jun 25, 2015
ESO: I Date My Cousin

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

Post by kaister »

yeah a combat card for ayboos is a bit silly considering how good the unit is and how good the otto eco is now a days
User avatar
New Zealand ocemilky
Dragoon
Posts: 204
Joined: Aug 5, 2015
ESO: Motch | Milky__

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

Post by ocemilky »

Kaiserklein wrote:
09 Feb 2024, 23:54
ocemilky wrote:
09 Feb 2024, 23:04
Maybe too situational to be OP? It's a good card no doubt about that, but if it's not something you send every time you have falc out then it's probably not OP
But you're gonna go abus anyway in a lot of situations. You can have leftover abus from age 2, the shipment of 6, possibly even a 4 abus age up. And just train them too because the unit is super strong. A combat card on them is really nice on its own already. And then the card is OP because your artillery also suddenly wins every trade.
Fair point, I haven't seen age 2 abus in a minute in 1v1

At some point, maybe it was EP or when DE was released, they removed the effect on artillery on those cards and I think they did something similar with China's cards so they didn't get insane heavy cannons in age 4/5. Are these recent changes? Or did they leave the HP one alone?
sergyou wrote:i won't even bother reply to ur posts anymore and id like u to the same and not quote me
howlingwolfpaw wrote:cognitive dissonance is what people suffer from when refusing to look at 9/11 truth.
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3279
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: Ottoman Card Topçular is Unacceptable Buffing Falconets

Post by fei123456 »

Garja wrote:
09 Feb 2024, 07:17
fei123456 wrote:
09 Feb 2024, 06:31
So what? Ottoman is designed as artillery civ so it should have better cannons.
In aoe2 there are Celts with tanky siege weapons, Korean with long range catapults, mongols with fast rams... Many of which doesn't even need a tech Or a shipment. Why don't you complain about that?
It's specifically because of the 2falc battle which was often key in aoe3. It doesn't help that Otto is currently one of the best civs.
But do anyone send cannon combat after 2 cannons? It could be 5 spahi instead.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV