Hardest Otto counters

[alistairpeter]

Looking to switch up my civ pool and take it out on the Ottos what are my best bets

[CuCkO0]

otto

[callentournies]

jullian did a 4 axe rider 700c great hunter 8v(?) cav combat (?) w/2 TP stagecoach vs me, making almost only BR and some AR and some dog soldiers and a dog soldier bb and some skirm shipments and ran around and crushed every fight vs me abus CA with community plaza and it felt very hard to beat, although, I needed to be split firing my abus a lot more

it's unclear how this performs vs a kerimb church FI, but siege dance good unit too

[callentournies]

@JulianK what was that build?

[Garja]

Lakota are traditionally a counter to Otto because of BR and also RR (+other good cards) with a very fast FF. I doubt any of that is particularly relevant in current DE meta. By the way I don't think abus CA is that strong considering Otto other options and often just plays in the hand of other civ.
I'm not sure Otto have any real counter in DE atm, but most of civs surely can do ok if played correctly. It is just that Otto are easier to play and their strats are all quite effective - possibly OP at a point - which is an annoying mix. It helps if you know the opponent is skewed toward playing a certain strat, e.g. almost never playing age2 because then you just semi FF to face a possible FF and with the plan of following up to industrial upon scouting. Most civs can do that.
Idk maybe Iro, Port, Italy, French, those are the first civs that come to mind.

[alistairpeter]

Lakota are traditionally a counter to Otto because of BR and also RR (+other good cards) with a very fast FF. I doubt any of that is particularly relevant in current DE meta. By the way I don't think abus CA is that strong considering Otto other options and often just plays in the hand of other civ.
I'm not sure Otto have any real counter in DE atm, but most of civs surely can do ok if played correctly. It is just that Otto are easier to play and their strats are all quite effective - possibly OP at a point - which is an annoying mix. It helps if you know the opponent is skewed toward playing a certain strat, e.g. almost never playing age2 because then you just semi FF to face a possible FF and with the plan of following up to industrial upon scouting. Most civs can do that.
Idk maybe Iro, Port FF/FI, Italy, French, those are the first civs that come to mind.

Interesting, I've tried Iro a bit but mostly age 2 play, and lately I see lots of towers from Otto. Somehow camping in base they still have enough res to get industrial, vs age 2 pressure whether I greed or all in the siege from iro feels a little low, and CM with otto minutes, (when I play Aztec I feel like I have enough siege to make this not a problem in age 2 but still hate that MU). Then real age 2 play from Otto can be quite hard to face as well with jan abus, or even jan abus deli eventually. Is the idea to not use fast age and do a semi with iro? I am often shocked at their ability to pull off the FI and gather res for church techs after dealing damage, but if I try to follow the FI with most civs it just can't compete. The Otto CM feels very strong bc it makes it that much harder to siege down a tc with heavy inf multi bc heavy inf bring the siege. Then the FF can be very tough to beat, and the powerful shipments are somewhat unpredictable, but the scariest always feels like the water play, I can convincingly win on land and still manage to lose games vs otto water.

All in rushes can work for me if I see two tps, I like to go in base cause idle time and hope for a house or mosque, then fall back onto the first tp and repeat the process. The Otto xp curve is so good wasting a shipment on two towers doesn't seem to bother them, and some will even send 3 more in age3 to upgrade them all and then 3 tc boom in base and somehow never run out of res; to kill the army I usually need low siege units but to kill the buildings I need heavy inf so it they can be deleted by minute men. When they camp like that, I either over commit or give them too much time and they end up in IV. Frustrating to lose vs auto firing buildings and have nothing to do all game but hope I push at the opportune moment.

[swordmaster]

Lakota are traditionally a counter to Otto because of BR and also RR (+other good cards) with a very fast FF. I doubt any of that is particularly relevant in current DE meta. By the way I don't think abus CA is that strong considering Otto other options and often just plays in the hand of other civ.
I'm not sure Otto have any real counter in DE atm, but most of civs surely can do ok if played correctly. It is just that Otto are easier to play and their strats are all quite effective - possibly OP at a point - which is an annoying mix. It helps if you know the opponent is skewed toward playing a certain strat, e.g. almost never playing age2 because then you just semi FF to face a possible FF and with the plan of following up to industrial upon scouting. Most civs can do that.
Idk maybe Iro, Port FF/FI, Italy, French, those are the first civs that come to mind.

Interesting, I've tried Iro a bit but mostly age 2 play, and lately I see lots of towers from Otto. Somehow camping in base they still have enough res to get industrial, vs age 2 pressure whether I greed or all in the siege from iro feels a little low, and CM with otto minutes, (when I play Aztec I feel like I have enough siege to make this not a problem in age 2 but still hate that MU). Then real age 2 play from Otto can be quite hard to face as well with jan abus, or even jan abus deli eventually. Is the idea to not use fast age and do a semi with iro? I am often shocked at their ability to pull off the FI and gather res for church techs after dealing damage, but if I try to follow the FI with most civs it just can't compete. The Otto CM feels very strong bc it makes it that much harder to siege down a tc with heavy inf multi bc heavy inf bring the siege. Then the FF can be very tough to beat, and the powerful shipments are somewhat unpredictable, but the scariest always feels like the water play, I can convincingly win on land and still manage to lose games vs otto water.

All in rushes can work for me if I see two tps, I like to go in base cause idle time and hope for a house or mosque, then fall back onto the first tp and repeat the process. The Otto xp curve is so good wasting a shipment on two towers doesn't seem to bother them, and some will even send 3 more in age3 to upgrade them all and then 3 tc boom in base and somehow never run out of res; to kill the army I usually need low siege units but to kill the buildings I need heavy inf so it they can be deleted by minute men. When they camp like that, I either over commit or give them too much time and they end up in IV. Frustrating to lose vs auto firing buildings and have nothing to do all game but hope I push at the opportune moment.

Feels like you're dealing with classic Otto cheese lol. Have you tried hard rushing before they can set up those annoying towers? timing is everything. If they're consistently getting to Industrial while camping, you might need to be way more aggressive early and deny their boom. Not easy though - Ottos are pretty cracked right now.

[alistairpeter]

Lakota are traditionally a counter to Otto because of BR and also RR (+other good cards) with a very fast FF. I doubt any of that is particularly relevant in current DE meta. By the way I don't think abus CA is that strong considering Otto other options and often just plays in the hand of other civ.
I'm not sure Otto have any real counter in DE atm, but most of civs surely can do ok if played correctly. It is just that Otto are easier to play and their strats are all quite effective - possibly OP at a point - which is an annoying mix. It helps if you know the opponent is skewed toward playing a certain strat, e.g. almost never playing age2 because then you just semi FF to face a possible FF and with the plan of following up to industrial upon scouting. Most civs can do that.
Idk maybe Iro, Port FF/FI, Italy, French, those are the first civs that come to mind.

Interesting, I've tried Iro a bit but mostly age 2 play, and lately I see lots of towers from Otto. Somehow camping in base they still have enough res to get industrial, vs age 2 pressure whether I greed or all in the siege from iro feels a little low, and CM with otto minutes, (when I play Aztec I feel like I have enough siege to make this not a problem in age 2 but still hate that MU). Then real age 2 play from Otto can be quite hard to face as well with jan abus, or even jan abus deli eventually. Is the idea to not use fast age and do a semi with iro? I am often shocked at their ability to pull off the FI and gather res for church techs after dealing damage, but if I try to follow the FI with most civs it just can't compete. The Otto CM feels very strong bc it makes it that much harder to siege down a tc with heavy inf multi bc heavy inf bring the siege. Then the FF can be very tough to beat, and the powerful shipments are somewhat unpredictable, but the scariest always feels like the water play, I can convincingly win on land and still manage to lose games vs otto water.

All in rushes can work for me if I see two tps, I like to go in base cause idle time and hope for a house or mosque, then fall back onto the first tp and repeat the process. The Otto xp curve is so good wasting a shipment on two towers doesn't seem to bother them, and some will even send 3 more in age3 to upgrade them all and then 3 tc boom in base and somehow never run out of res; to kill the army I usually need low siege units but to kill the buildings I need heavy inf so it they can be deleted by minute men. When they camp like that, I either over commit or give them too much time and they end up in IV. Frustrating to lose vs auto firing buildings and have nothing to do all game but hope I push at the opportune moment.

Feels like you're dealing with classic Otto cheese lol. Have you tried hard rushing before they can set up those annoying towers? timing is everything. If they're consistently getting to Industrial while camping, you might need to be way more aggressive early and deny their boom. Not easy though - Ottos are pretty cracked right now.

Well between towers and CM it can be tough to not overcommit, and I have definitely had some luck catching the towers, but even then it isn't automatically game over. Hard rushing works the besdt from everything I've tried, but if they send CM I usually have to fall back or my units get one shot on top of the impending minute pop. The problem is it's hard to know what build they might do, but I've lost to just about every Otto build at some point. Playing age 2 sounds like the ideal counter to an FI, but I'm amazed at how quickly they can recover from damage, or the damage never even mattered unless it's getting the TC down. Otto age 2 is strong enough to handle most rushes defensively, especially with abus, musk huss comp available (even though I see more people influenced by Kerimb to resort to towers and minutemen spam).

[Hawk_Girl]

idk how otto beats ger?

[alistairpeter]

idk how otto beats ger?

I've had good luck with Germany. What is the best way to play it as Germany semi ff? What is the best way to lose the MU as germ as well. If they jan rush idea is to hold and age behind or play it out age 2?