New MU of the Week: France vs. Haud/Iro

User avatar
United States of America Squamiger
Howdah
Posts: 1771
Joined: Dec 25, 2018
ESO: Squamiger

New MU of the Week: France vs. Haud/Iro

  • Quote

Post by Squamiger »

mu.png
We're back. Based on some conversations and high level math in this thread,, we've determined that there are 210 possible civ matchups currently in DE with more to potentially come as a result of new civs. I have missed the old MU of the Month threads from legacy, so I wanted to start something similar. But the only way we are going to get through these MUs in a reasonable amount of time (and before the devs shake everything up with a patch) is by doing this on an expedited timeframe. The other thing I've noticed is that even when there were MU of the Month threads, most answers in the threads came within a few days of the thread being posted-- they were really matchups of the week, with large lulls in between. So instead, I give you, the MU of the Month Week!

You can find all the old MUs here

I just saw a really good game on stream between Kevin and Frontline, so it inspired me to make this week's matchup as....

France vs. Haudenosaunee/Iro
Flag_IroquoisDE.jpg
vs.
Flag_French.png
What is the meta between these two civs currently?
What is Haud's goal in this MU, and what is France's goal?
Which civ is favored, and which civ is at a disadvantage?
What maps favor which civ?
User avatar
United States of America musketeer925
Retired Contributor
Donator 01
Posts: 2502
Joined: Mar 28, 2015
ESO: musketeer925

Re: New MU of the Week: France vs. Haud/Iro

Post by musketeer925 »

Here's what some guides say:

kevinitalien's Haudenosaunee Guide (2022)
an easy mu for hauds because hauds is just faster with better units
Build recommended : Fast Fortress, Semi FF 15 toma 4 kanya, Semi FF stage coach
Complete France Guide - by Diarouga (2017)
Iro: In this match-up, you'll need to use your coureurs a lot to defend. That's why I would go for the "standard opening" because 700w won't be useful in that situation while 4vills would. Open with a stable knowing that Iro's anti cav isn't the best, and try to age when you stabilize. The only way you beat his army is by massing cuirassiers with the 2 falcs shipment.
If he goes for a fortress build, follow him and go skirm/goon this time, make sure you have more skirms than him ;)
Are these out-of-date, or still accurate?
User avatar
France P i k i l i c
Howdah
Posts: 1291
Joined: Nov 17, 2015
ESO: Pikilic
Location: near Versailles, France
GameRanger ID: 7497456
Clan: TLS31

Re: New MU of the Week: France vs. Haud/Iro

Post by P i k i l i c »

I'm noob so I don't have any answer. But why does Kevin say "hauds is just faster with better units" ? which Iro units are better than France's ones, except Forest Prowlers ?
Also, how should Iro defend against vet musk + falcs ?
Consider not the one who speaks the truth, but the truth that is said

:hmm: AoE logic :hmm:
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9771
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: New MU of the Week: France vs. Haud/Iro

  • Quote

Post by Garja »

Surely this switched heavily in favor of France because of Iro nerfs and Fre buffs. Especially 12/10 and the nat embassy card make it a lot easier to defend vs rushes. Other than that musk semi and 2 falcs is still sort of a problem for iro who basicaly have to either commit to age2 or FF without units (toma semi you age up exactly in time to get 2 falcs in your face with no real answer).

But idk, maybe old iro fast age2 is still challenging.
Image Image Image
User avatar
United States of America dicktator_
Howdah
EWT
Posts: 1591
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
ESO: Conquerer999

Re: New MU of the Week: France vs. Haud/Iro

Post by dicktator_ »

P i k i l i c wrote:
17 Jan 2025, 17:44
I'm noob so I don't have any answer. But why does Kevin say "hauds is just faster with better units" ? which Iro units are better than France's ones, except Forest Prowlers ?
Also, how should Iro defend against vet musk + falcs ?
FP are better than skirms, musket riders are a competitive goon unit, Kenya are worse than cuirs but Iro gets a 5 cuir shipment. Add in war dance and Iro army is definitely better. France makes up for it with better eco having access to tier 2 market and cdbs. Musk falc is dealt with I believe with just a fp/musket rider mass and waiting for a good angle to snipe the falc and poking musk with fp any time they step too far forward while staying barely out of falc range. Idk who should win the mu though.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
:mds:
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9771
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: New MU of the Week: France vs. Haud/Iro

Post by Garja »

Ye I mean the problem is that even with a sub 7 min FF you will have something like 10fp and 5mr when the 2 falcs knock on the door. Basically you rely on a good pop to take them off which idk if it works vs a French player who know exactly how the MU works, plus on DE iro units are nerfed so they don't even beat French ones by much.
Image Image Image
User avatar
French Southern Territories kevinitalien
Lancer
Posts: 683
Joined: Oct 31, 2015
ESO: KEVINITALIEN
Clan: PLOP

Re: New MU of the Week: France vs. Haud/Iro

  • Quote

Post by kevinitalien »

Garja wrote:
17 Jan 2025, 19:30
Surely this switched heavily in favor of France because of Iro nerfs and Fre buffs. Especially 12/10 and the nat embassy card make it a lot easier to defend vs rushes. Other than that musk semi and 2 falcs is still sort of a problem for iro who basicaly have to either commit to age2 or FF without units (toma semi you age up exactly in time to get 2 falcs in your face with no real answer).

But idk, maybe old iro fast age2 is still challenging.
pretty much yes
dicktator_ wrote:
17 Jan 2025, 20:22
P i k i l i c wrote:
17 Jan 2025, 17:44
I'm noob so I don't have any answer. But why does Kevin say "hauds is just faster with better units" ? which Iro units are better than France's ones, except Forest Prowlers ?
Also, how should Iro defend against vet musk + falcs ?
FP are better than skirms
this aint true anymore, you need a combat card for having same stat and they train 3 secs slower
Image
Image
Image Image
User avatar
United States of America dicktator_
Howdah
EWT
Posts: 1591
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
ESO: Conquerer999

Re: New MU of the Week: France vs. Haud/Iro

Post by dicktator_ »

kevinitalien wrote:
19 Jan 2025, 09:13
dicktator_ wrote:
17 Jan 2025, 20:22
P i k i l i c wrote:
17 Jan 2025, 17:44
I'm noob so I don't have any answer. But why does Kevin say "hauds is just faster with better units" ? which Iro units are better than France's ones, except Forest Prowlers ?
Also, how should Iro defend against vet musk + falcs ?
FP are better than skirms
this aint true anymore, you need a combat card for having same stat and they train 3 secs slower
Right, forgot about the FP nerf. Yeah I guess it's just France favored then since Iro has been nerfed all around.
steniothejonjoe wrote:I can micro better than 99% of the player base and that's 100% objective
:mds:
User avatar
Greece LazarosVas
Dragoon
Posts: 300
Joined: Mar 9, 2021
Clan: GMDS

Re: New MU of the Week: France vs. Haud/Iro

Post by LazarosVas »

This mu used to be easy pz for Haude, now its a big struggle.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

War of Liberty

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV