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[gibson]

So there's not one single strat from 22 civs that can beat this or put you in a decent position to win? Or you can't just mirror and win if you're actually the better player?

[Garja]

So there's not one single strat from 22 civs that can beat this or put you in a decent position to win? Or you can't just mirror and win if you're actually the better player?

Not the right thread to discuss it, but I'm fairly sure most if not all civs can beat it and, once figured out the specific counter strat, it probably gets even trivial with some civs. That in theory atleast, then you can argue you have to work harder than the guy doing Baja revo.

[Hazza54321]

So there's not one single strat from 22 civs that can beat this or put you in a decent position to win? Or you can't just mirror and win if you're actually the better player?

seems hard to beat on a 3/4+ tp map but doable i guess but it usually involves alot of outplaying. Mirroring it you should see the games, its retarded. You both go all in and sit behind 3 outposts with zero vills and whoever pushes loses.

[gibson]

So there's not one single strat from 22 civs that can beat this or put you in a decent position to win? Or you can't just mirror and win if you're actually the better player?

Not the right thread to discuss it, but I'm fairly sure most if not all civs can beat it and, once figured out the specific counter strat, it probably gets even trivial with some civs. That in theory atleast, then you can argue you have to work harder than the guy doing Baja revo.

I think you're likely right, and I dislike how ever since DE came out whenever something new is discovered people instantly go into its super op and unbeatable instead of trying to figure out how to beat it. Maybe it is truly the best strat of the game and almost impossible to beat, but I don't buy that claim from someone who's just watched it on a stream or played vs it 5x on ladder.

[iNcog]

Well with a smaller size of the competitive playerpool it's probably very easy to overwhelm the meta and make it a chore to have figure things out only to throw away what you learned as soon as next "lame" thing comes out. I wouldn't know specifics admittedly.

What's so bad with baja that it led to this kind of discussion? It's a single map or what?

[Yukietti]

Respectfully, I've also decided to cancel my sign up.
I totaly understand what Tabben says but personally I don't want to put my time to learn some bullshit revolt that requires no strategy but just the same build order. I have played against it a lot and all the time I end up losing all of my mass in one shot to a goon (?) type of unit.
I believe that even if it's important what viewers think and feel, we should also prioritize what players feel. Surely most of the players have different stuff to complain about, but in this context almost 95% of the community complain about this. So I believe it's not so hard to see that there is actually a problem. :)
I think it will be fun to watch this tournament, so I can't wait for it to happen.

[Oliveza]

I dont think the problem is that baja is impossible to beat, ofc its beatable if you outplay your opponent and have +200 elo.
The Problem is that he gets skirms which have 2ROF and Moba abilities to throw bombs with 2splash which kill all your skirms/musk.
They also have a ridiculous amount of siege for a skirm type unit, even more than a musk.
The second problem is the "goon" unit they get, which snare with ranged attack and also do 2splash damage XD.
So yea you might be able to beat baja if you play perfectly but its not even close to beeing an even fight.
Baja is just super OP and gives like +200elo inflation

imo tbh ngl

[kevinitalien]

So there's not one single strat from 22 civs that can beat this or put you in a decent position to win? Or you can't just mirror and win if you're actually the better player?

honestly ill try to be neutral but its very very hard to beat on high tp map, but in a match where players are around the same lvl you don't beat baja well maybe otto tbh ( jans abus ), and mirror is just about one card, the one sending random outlaws, the one luckiest win the fight so the game...
But really, if someone good tryhard baja for some days, its unbaetable, units very early with very good eco even with no vills ( lol ) with stupid units and cheap, and we can say " ff semi or semi bow or musk " or whatever most of the time you get right clicked by skirm throwing bomb or goons running to your shit and destroying everything
you literrally have to outplay a lot a 1700 elo players, so imagine someone decent... and i don't want to know with this tourney cuz i can already see me being at 3:3 and get stomped by baja for the last game lol

And garja sorry bro, but you have no clue

[Garja]

Perhaps mods can move the posts in a new specific thread as this one is turning exactly into a strategic discussion it wasn't meant to be.

Baja is very much beatable and people are overreacting like always. Do people even realize that the 2 ROF is actually a nerf since renegado type units used to have 40 damage in legacy? The moba ability is indeed good and given the recharging time most likely too good. But that's about it. It is a short range attack and you have to avoid it as much as possible (I agree the siege power is too much tho). The quatrero seems OP because people keep showing up with 15 weaker units vs like 20 quatrero then complain they don't get countered. Reminds me of people complaining about hakka or bow riders. =_=
Best revo time is like 4:40 (most of times, even with a food treasure it's actually 4:50) and then 40 seconds on average on every map to reach opponent base. 14 musks and 2 explorers at 5:20 is annoying but definetely not the most unbeatable thing, considereing how efficient the TC is vs musks in general and that apparently minutemen have bonus against those units. It's literally better to have 10 vills belled in TC shooting at filibusters than actually gathering resources.
Then people complain about the follow up with bandidos etc. Well, all the outlaws train relatively slow and even when you get enough of them it's not like it is an unbeatable army. Maybe if you play French or Germans with only xbows it may be a problem (Germans should probaly try to get renegado or similar themselves) but otherwise most civs have at least one way to counter baja. Even regardless of all theory, the fact that people who have a counter strat planned consistently beat Baja is just telling of how beatable the strat is.

Overall, most of the games on twitch vs baja there are tons of defensive mistakes plus overall just not a specific plan/build to beat it. It's sad community has come to the point that instead of trying harder to beat something that is obviously strong but beatable it defaults to complain instead.

[gibson]

well at the end of the day if tons of players arent gonna play unless 1 strat is disallowed seems like a no brainer to disallow it regardless

[Hazza54321]

think its just healthier for the tournament overall to just disallow it

[callentournies]

did a little tier listin' on twitch

(in)activity plays a part

[alistairpeter]

Tabben easy S tier

[shake2020aoe]

did a little tier listin' on twitch
2025winteresoctierlist.PNG
(in)activity plays a part

i hate phoenix but even i can admit he is comfortably S tier if not the best player in the tourney

[shake2020aoe]

did a little tier listin' on twitch
2025winteresoctierlist.PNG
(in)activity plays a part

also placing kevin above rohbrot after losing to him quite handily last series they played is questionable, this list is kinda meh

[callentournies]

did a little tier listin' on twitch
2025winteresoctierlist.PNG
(in)activity plays a part

also placing kevin above rohbrot after losing to him quite handily last series they played is questionable, this list is kinda meh

[shake2020aoe]

did a little tier listin' on twitch
2025winteresoctierlist.PNG
(in)activity plays a part

also placing kevin above rohbrot after losing to him quite handily last series they played is questionable, this list is kinda meh

COTD.png

you either
nate higgers or you

[shake2020aoe]

did a little tier listin' on twitch
2025winteresoctierlist.PNG
(in)activity plays a part

also placing kevin above rohbrot after losing to him quite handily last series they played is questionable, this list is kinda meh

COTD.png

nice knowing u get ur panties in a bunch over a joke

[Joshua667746]

Ro64 Stream Schedule is Out!
We’re launching this season with the ultimate underdog line up! Watch every game LIVE on ESOCTV, or on ESOC YT, but don't forget to Subscribe to support future tournaments and unlock some cheeky bonus perks!

[callentournies]

qualifiers page shows Lones 4-0 Risi. Did Risi drop out?

[Guigs]

qualifiers page shows Lones 4-0 Risi. Did Risi drop out?

He didn't schedule in time

[jap_jon]

Thank you tournament organizers for the nice stream schedule! I know that's difficult to coordinate, so props!

[Joshua667746]

Ro32 Stream Schedule is Out!
Thank you legends for making this season's launch absolutely massive! We've got another huge week of ahead of us with some killer match ups you don't want to miss LIVE on ESOCTV, or on the INSTANT VOD on ESOC YT! If you love these $1,000 events, support us with a donation toward next season's prize pool! See you in the chat!

[Joshua667746]

Ro8 Stream Schedule is Out!
The final 8 Spring Champions from all over the globe are ready to battle it out for control of the New World! This week's match-ups are of the highest caliber AoE3 has to offer, so grab a drink, a snack and make sure to tune in LIVE on ESOCTV, or on the INSTANT VOD on ESOC YT! If you love these $1,000 events, support us with a donation toward next season's prize pool! See you there!