Defend mode formation

[alistairpeter]

The defend mode stance was universally ignored in legacy, what exactly is causing it to be popular in DE? It makes it so the "long click" formation isn't possible and reduces spread of fire in attack move situations, what are the advantages of it and more importantly why was it ignored before DE?

[Mitoe]

I believe defensive formation was tweaked slightly in DE, but not sure how.

[Garja]

They get more clumped in small numbers in DE. Past a certain number they arrange in a bigger box formation

[Hazza54321]

pathing got worse so our glorious players in desperation tried different stances and defend mode seemed to path better than regular mode

[EAGLEMUT]

Hmm, interesting.

I think yes actually, hand cav defend mode is secretly OP and it's a matter of time before high level players figure it out.

[alistairpeter]

Hmm, interesting.

I think yes actually, hand cav defend mode is secretly OP and it's a matter of time before high level players figure it out.

After reading that thread (albeit 4 years old) I have some new questions. If I put them in this mode I'll never be able to do long click formations with them? I use this tactic whenever I get the chance to pounce on the enemy for snare, and the more cav in a group, the longer the column becomes. Long columns are also very good for surrounding, especially if you use multiple long columns around each side of a large mass, which thins out your cav and lets them all swing at once. Was this patched out since the 2021 discussion or will I forever lose this ability if I try out this defend mode?
If I had 2 steppe from a summer palace batch added to my age 3 cav mass, and at some point those steppe were in defend mode, I would no longer be able to do the long click to change formation? Does this same effect happen if I use one to trample 6 minutes etc
Also talk of a "speed boost" in that thread for defend mode, I have no idea what that's about. Is that a physical change to the units base speed, or just a way of saying they rush together quickly to huddle up?
And as far as infantry, long click columns are also important for sneaking in an extra shot with the units at the front of the column if you get the chance on retreating units. Putting inf in defend mode, melee, or stagger removes this ability?

[Garja]

The column-line switch thing is only possible with the default formation, aka neutral formation. Once you assign any formation to a group they lose that ability. If you mix new units in the group then it behaves as the neutral formation.

[Squamiger]

did defend mode hand cav also make a smaller box with 4-5 cav back on RE? if so i feel like it would have even been worth it back then. when raiding its so much better to have all 5 cav connect at once to the vill, rather than connecting in sequence one at a time.

[EAGLEMUT]

Also talk of a "speed boost" in that thread for defend mode, I have no idea what that's about. Is that a physical change to the units base speed, or just a way of saying they rush together quickly to huddle up?

Upon performing an attack (hitting a unit), they gain increased movement speed for a very brief period. It's mainly useful to maintain snare.

[callentournies]

pathing got worse so our glorious players in desperation tried different stances and defend mode seemed to path better than regular mode

Our glorious Frontline*

[callentournies]

pathing got worse so our glorious players in desperation tried different stances and defend mode seemed to path better than regular mode

Our glorious Frontline*

Our glorious Eaglemut**

[alistairpeter]

So the gist of it seems like it's mostly just a raiding thing, and likely suboptimal for big engagements?
On one hand, if your opponent attack moves a mass of inf in defend mode, the inf are much less spread out so potentially a smaller number of your troops gets hit by their first volley, but this works both ways because your bunched up infantry have a reduced spread of fire and no concave.
Seems like a very niche thing to me, and not important for the big fight, maybe even detrimental.