supporting esoc anymore

[steppenwolf]

Interesting actions from one of the most humane armies @steppenwolf knows


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_ ... e_Gaza_war

I’ve only reviewed a handful of the article’s sources, and many seem highly questionable. There are certainly war crimes that have never been denied—the real question is their scale. The core issue is the credibility of the information. From your own article:(see Attachments). I’m looking forward to your lecture on Israel being “inhabited by demons backed by Hamas.”

Lol, I just spent one hour answering to steppenwolf and lost my message cuz I had to re-log to the website cuz «u can’t preview a message with quotes ». Don’t think I’ll take the bother to write it twice, especially as I was already questioning my sanity of arguing over the Internet to some random stranger, something I almost always refrain to do as it seems so pointless ngl…

Edit : I’m just gonna re-type out of memory the first paragraph that was dealing with ur ’antisemitic claims’. Why can’t u be a little nuanced? Why don’t u get that criticizing Israeli War in Gaza doesn’t make one by default antisemitic ? The same as criticizing hamas actions doesn’t make you islamophobic, nor does criticizing Iran (Islamic Republic of Iran) regime. Why would it be different for Israel ? Like wtf does that idea come from ?

You’re absolutely right! I said that criticism of Israel equals antisemitism, as you can see in the bottom part of my last message. Der Stürmer also just criticized Jewish people—nothing controversial there. I think this conversation has reached a dead end, and I’d rather not go in circles and waste time. I’m generally open to changing my opinion, but I see no reason to do so after this “discourse.” Following this logic will lead me to the Erath being a traingle.

[Goodspeed]

You’re absolutely right!

This phrase triggers me

[GuiliuG]

At this point, u're making urself look ridiculous ngl, and u should probably try to learn how to use irony better btw.

U said, I quote : "simply accusing Israel of various atrocities without any proof whatsoever is, to me, just blatant antisemitism, period". How can't u get that it's not ? Just as a reminder, antisemitism is hostility, prejudice or discrimination against Jew people. Israel is a state, not Jew people ! Is it really that hard? What do u make then of the Jews themselves (whether they live in Israel or not btw) that are critical of Israel ? Are they antisemitic too ? Do u really think that all people being critical of the Israeli war in gaza accuse all the Jews around the world to be responsible for it ? Let's be serious, man…

Also, u get that critizing an Israeli soldier for commiting atrocities on gazans don't make u antisemitic either, right ? U criticize the actions of that particular person, not all Jews… I mean, really, it's that basic…

It seems u're the kind of person who thinks that criticizing Israel equal to wishing its disappearance (or maybe even the disappearence of all jews), quite sad tbh to be that simple-minded.

Ofc, I'm not even gonna get started on the "without any proof whatsover", because at this point of time, to write something like that, u're just a desperate case.

"Just like any other country, Israel can be criticized, but what’s happening here is, as far as I can tell, propaganda and antisemitism—unless you provide an actual source.". But what is antisemitism here again lol? Plus, I just gave u a source and there are tons of sources documenting the war crimes going on in gaza by the "most humane army". If u don't want to see them, that's ur problem, not mine. Interestingly, u seem to be unable to understand that propanga comes from both sides which is quite surpring coming from someone who presents himself has having a critical thinking.

Funny u mentioned " Der Stürmer" as trying to prove ur point, when it actually proves mine. Just show ur incapacity to reflect on the subject ngl.

Also quite funny u criticize the validity of the sources in the wiki articles posted by gibson (when there are almost a 100 of them and u reviewed just a 'handful') but can't do the same with the 3 first articles u posted on ur previous msg to show how death numbers in gaza are overestimated.

[MrRewindThat]

Have you thought about joining House of Trading Post. The community is scam free.

[steppenwolf]

-At this point, u're making urself look ridiculous ngl, and u should probably try to learn how to use irony better btw.
-quite sad tbh to be that simple-minded.
-u're just a desperate case.
-coming from someone who presents himself has having a critical thinking.
-Just show ur incapacity to reflect on the subject ngl.

Thank you very much for your feedback! I promise I will reflect on it and think about my behaviour for a very long time. After meeting you on this forum, a whole new world opened up for me, and I must thank you for all the joy I have experienced. I will think of you for the rest of my life and try to hold a weekly ritual in your honour. I can hardly believe my luck in having such a witty contemporary.

Best regards,

Your new number-one fan :)

[spanky4ever]

Response to @LopsidedFluff who wrote this:

I mean shake was only banned cause you spanky kept spamming that ban button and complaining about him, and the woke people at twitch as soon as they see an israeli click the ban button.

Saying because twitch banned him he shouldn't even be apart of the community is just so wrong. Why should esoc conform to twitch moderating policies?

I have repeated myself many times. But I will do it once more to you, since I have always thought of you as a nice, decent person.

I did not report Shake.
Shake threatened to report me, and I guess he did? Resulting in him getting banned. Quite ironic, would you not agree?
Why Esoc should, and frankly need to adjust to Twitch rules, is BECAUSE THERE ARE RULES. Simple as that.

There are a couple of ppl who has given Shake a platform in their streams, by having his voice in the background from parallel Discord chat. I have complained about that, directly in the same stream, and again being subject to this persons rage towards me. I get that this angers him, but again, he did this to himself.

Mind you, Shake has had other accounts on twitch before that got banned for his conduct there.

One more thing; ppl who give a person who is banned from Twitch, a platform in their chat, like i described above, might also break Twitch ruled, and they should be aware, and take necessary steps so they do not get banned also.

I know Shake love his Discord, where he can twist things at best, and directly lie at worst. I am not there, and do not need to listen/read his chitchats.
I know many ppl do, and I guess you are one of them, since you are so persistent to keep the narrative you posted here.

I hope this response to you, have given you the clarity you needed? If not, I simply cannot help

[LopsidedFluff]

Response to @LopsidedFluff who wrote this:

I mean shake was only banned cause you spanky kept spamming that ban button and complaining about him, and the woke people at twitch as soon as they see an israeli click the ban button.

Saying because twitch banned him he shouldn't even be apart of the community is just so wrong. Why should esoc conform to twitch moderating policies?

I have repeated myself many times. But I will do it once more to you, since I have always thought of you as a nice, decent person.

I did not report Shake.
Shake threatened to report me, and I guess he did? Resulting in him getting banned. Quite ironic, would you not agree?
Why Esoc should, and frankly need to adjust to Twitch rules, is BECAUSE THERE ARE RULES. Simple as that.

There are a couple of ppl who has given Shake a platform in their streams, by having his voice in the background from parallel Discord chat. I have complained about that, directly in the same stream, and again being subject to this persons rage towards me. I get that this angers him, but again, he did this to himself.

Mind you, Shake has had other accounts on twitch before that got banned for his conduct there.

One more thing; ppl who give a person who is banned from Twitch, a platform in their chat, like i described above, might also break Twitch ruled, and they should be aware, and take necessary steps so they do not get banned also.

I know Shake love his Discord, where he can twist things at best, and directly lie at worst. I am not there, and do not need to listen/read his chitchats.
I know many ppl do, and I guess you are one of them, since you are so persistent to keep the narrative you posted here.

I hope this response to you, have given you the clarity you needed? If not, I simply cannot help

Thanks for your response. I will always support my friend Shake, however I didn't realise this was a twitch policy, however I do understand why they have this rule

[Hazza54321]

Have you thought about joining House of Trading Post. The community is scam free.

might be scam free but id rather be scammed then be a part of this ..

[spanky4ever]

why the fuck would admins keep this thread open?

Rather have the discussion here than in a Twitch chat tbh

why do you not answer my post?

[spanky4ever]

should not be afraid of bullies. we are way more than thoose ...............@edeholland

[spanky4ever]

3 or 4 days later, nobody has responded to me from esoc team. Are they afraid, or just chickens.

[moonshine]

xd

[edeholland]

why the fuck would admins keep this thread open?

Rather have the discussion here than in a Twitch chat tbh

why do you not answer my post?

I'm not terminally online. But I've forwarded it to those in charge of the casters on esoctv nowadays so you'll get your response. Given that it happened a few months back, I think waiting a few days for a response should be doable.

[fightinfrenchman]

Show hidden quotes

why the fuck would admins keep this thread open?

Rather have the discussion here than in a Twitch chat tbh

why do you not answer my post?

I'm not terminally online.

Is this your way of getting out of your responsibilities?

[stanleywinston]

I am very rarely active anymore on this forum, except for some banter comments. But reading all of this, I need to write this off of my mind.

First of all, I believe that these kinds of discussions are not suitable to have on an AOE3 Forum.
The platform was intended to be a neutral place to discuss the game and everything co-related to it, not political believes or opinions on very sensitive subjects. Especially those subjects where both parties from their own perspective, can neither be right or wrong.

In my humble opinion, it is essential for all current, new and future players, that the image of ESOC remains neutral in any way possible and should not allow these kinds of things to be discussed here.
Reddit and a lot more platforms allow for such a discussion and are more suited to provide the necessary modding.

Secondly, to all the current players on this forum: please, keep your political opinions and ragebait comments to yourself and out of Twitch chat. It literally divides this entire community in small little pieces and the community is too divided as it already is today.

Sincerely,
The Father

[Goodspeed]

You wouldn't know but ESOC is not just an AoE3 forum. At this point the off topic forum is far more active than the AoE3 forum and some of ESOC's biggest donors (including spanky) are mostly off-topic posters.

The fact that you keep playing the founder card when you had almost nothing to do with making ESOC what it is today is such a cringefest.

[iNcog]

reddit is trash where you get brigades or mods neuter discussion to fit a narrative, whether you lean one way or another. it's nothing more than a shitty echo chamber

the normalization of taboo topics isn't the hallmark of a civilized or intellectual society. if we can't discuss Israel/Palestine on an internet forum, then where else? work is an actually bad place for these discussions. cafes/bars are too local. reddit is garbage for aforementioned reasons (most social media is). youtube will demonetize historically focused channels for mentioning naziss. gaming forums or just forums in general are probably some of the better places to have these discussions at all. it's exhausting when fucking adults are deemed too immature to handle real topics. this head in the sand mentality is exactly what got us to these abhorrent places to begin with

besides the game sucks now, why would you wanna keep the scope aoe3 only

[stanleywinston]

You wouldn't know but ESOC is not just an AoE3 forum. At this point the off topic forum is far more active than the AoE3 forum and some of ESOC's biggest donors (including spanky) are mostly off-topic posters.

The fact that you keep playing the founder card when you had almost nothing to do with making ESOC what it is today is such a cringefest.

Even though I was no part in the development from 2016 and onwards, I have been following ESOC since the day I left it in better hands. Over the last 2 years I have seen it deteriorate into a toxic and flaming community, being a platform for people's oversized egos. My opinion stays the same that this is no place to be having this kind of discussions.

I never claimed I made ESOC what it is today and I never will, ever being grateful to those who kept improving every single aspect of this platform. But I am the founder of ESOC and I always will be.

[stanleywinston]

reddit is trash where you get brigades or mods neuter discussion to fit a narrative, whether you lean one way or another. it's nothing more than a shitty echo chamber

the normalization of taboo topics isn't the hallmark of a civilized or intellectual society. if we can't discuss Israel/Palestine on an internet forum, then where else? work is an actually bad place for these discussions. cafes/bars are too local. reddit is garbage for aforementioned reasons (most social media is). youtube will demonetize historically focused channels for mentioning naziss. gaming forums or just forums in general are probably some of the better places to have these discussions at all. it's exhausting when fucking adults are deemed too immature to handle real topics. this head in the sand mentality is exactly what got us to these abhorrent places to begin with

besides the game sucks now, why would you wanna keep the scope aoe3 only

I agree with your reasoning and I do agree that the moderation in these kinds of discussions on Reddit is sometimes misplaced (and all places for that matter). But there are enough platforms that allow for political discussion.

Good fundamental understanding on these topics is essential to be able to discuss these. 80% of the people who have an interpretation on subjects such as these are underinformed except for those few. In general, and I for sure, people are given information through social media, press and mouth-to-mouth conversations, ... but this information and misinformation leads to incorrect statements and interpretation of the facts. Therefor, it is in my opinion that topics such as these, which requires non-colored informational 'data', should not be discussed on here.

If I would be joining this conversation, I am sure that 70% of what I am saying would be wrong in some way or be about 15-30% off from the truth.
Sometimes it is better to abstain from discussing these topics.

[iNcog]

Philosophically, I don't agree that you need to have a good understanding of the topic to engage in them. What you shouldn't do is engage in bad faith. I don't fully understand the nuances of Israel v Palestine, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to be condemning the leadership on both sides (from what I can tell, Hamas and Israel's government have both escalated things and disregarded civilian life). My position is equally that the real victims would be the populations, I would say probably on both sides and I would also surmise (though I'm very unsure of this) that the Palestinian population in Gaza is suffering more. This doesn't invalidate Israel's right to exist, nor the security and safety of its citizens.

The thing is, where I to completely abstain from discussing said topic, how would I ever learn about it? Generally discussing something with someone who knows more than you is the best (possibly the most human) way of learning about an issue. It's okay to get things wrong, it's okay to not fully understand something. What isn't okay is to take a position where the value of human life is not regarded as important. I think I've seen that particular take on both sides.

Humans do not talk to each other anymore. They take a side and entrench themselves in it. Social media, whether youtube, reddit or the rest of those garbage sites, are built around creating an emotional need to take a side and stick to it. Traditional news outlets were gunning for Trump's re-election not because it would be a good thing, but because their ratings and engagement would skyrocket. What kind of trash is this? The way that humans are acting right now is reprehensible. We're numb to the suffering of others. We actively cheer for it if it means "our side" wins.

In the grand scheme of things, an online gaming forum is one of the places where it makes sense to engage in politics. I may condemn the Russian government for the war it has started, but I don't want to hold ill will towards a Russian person for merely being Russian. I like yurashic (hope you're okay buddy). Through gaming we're brought together by a common interest: the video game itself. And through that common interest, international bonds are created. Those are the sort of bonds that are probably actually good for humanity. Not many activities will foster those relations. If I go to the gym, I'm talking to Americans only, not Russian, Japanese or German people. But most gaming communities are very strong international. If we preclude ourselves from having difficult discussions in one of the few environments where we're free to do so (the forum format being much healthier than other forms of social media) on an international scope, we're really not doing ourselves a favor.

[iNcog]

besides, the fascists want us to not talk. they want our heads in the sand. I say fuck 'em

[gibson]

When the discussion of off topic was brought up years and years ago, people were overwhelming pro having an off topic section. Twitch chat is a different matter and I think it's fine to enforce a no politics rule there.

[Goodspeed]

Yeah twitch that is no place for serious discussion obviously

[princeofkabul]

besides, the fascists want us to not talk. they want our heads in the sand. I say fuck 'em

who is the secret hitler of esoc?

[harcha]

besides, the fascists want us to not talk. they want our heads in the sand. I say fuck 'em

who is the secret hitler of esoc?