explorer fast shooting

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United States of America Alohomora
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explorer fast shooting

Post by Alohomora »

Hi, I'm just wondering if using crackshot on treasure guardians to cancel explorer shooting animation is legit or cheating. Thanks.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

My point of view:
Eventhough some will say it's cheating, anyone can use this glitch and it's not game breaking and requires some skill. Thus, to me it's just like the no pillar walls, or using units to run with other units and totally legit, so I use it in my games, however ESOC thinks it's cheating and doesn't allow it in tourneys.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by sirmusket »

Honestly Kynesie's instant wall delete is way more cancerous and more closely linked with cheating than the hero bug ( which is in built into the game), and it requires micro/apm , so not like it's ez to do and still keep eye on macro etc.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Alohomora »

guess i won't do this xd
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Re: explorer fast shooting

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Post by gibson »

Thatā€™s fucking dumb. You could mod the moesbar ui so that it took skill to spawn units, itā€™s still cheating. Fact is using it is bug abuse which in this community is usually considered cheating. Now I donā€™t give two shits either way but saying ā€œ itā€™s okay cause it requires skillā€ is just dumb.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by wardyb1 »

Bug abuse is banned in most (read: I don't know of any that don't but I could be wrong) competitive games and often leads to bans/fines etc. if it can be shown that there was intentional bug abuse and not just sheer luck in finding the bug during the game. It for this reason this should also be considered cheating. Drag boxing the make units go faster isn't bug abuse. It's part of the games mechanics, alt+d is cheating and I'm not sure how no pillar walls could be considered cheating either as it is once again not a bug...
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by stronk »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:or using units to run with other units and totally legit

How do you do that running thing?
give that guy a manual
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by j_t_kirk »

stronk wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:or using units to run with other units and totally legit

How do you do that running thing?


phpBB [video]
ImageImageImage
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by gh0st »

j_t_kirk wrote:
stronk wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:or using units to run with other units and totally legit

How do you do that running thing?


phpBB [video]

Thats not what this thread is about. Its about a glitch where your explorer can shoot in very quick succession by targeting a treasure guardian with crackshot and cancelling it immediately so as to reset the shooting animation.

edit : nvm
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Re: explorer fast shooting

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Post by Cometk »

@gh0st stronk was specifically asking about what was shown in that video
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by stronk »

j_t_kirk wrote:
stronk wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:or using units to run with other units and totally legit

How do you do that running thing?


phpBB [video]

thx!
give that guy a manual
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by zoom »

It's not technically cheating; it's game-feature exploiting, like alt-d before it. Zoom-mods and macros are more clear-cut cases of cheating, because they are manual additions not ā€“ even unintentionally ā€“ featured in the game, providing, thereby, a definitive edge over the opponent, by default.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Garja »

Alt-d abuse is not game feature exploiting when used to revive the explorer, but rather a glitch exploit. And the reason for it is that the explorer is dead with specific mechanics to bring it back. If there was some trick with changing stance while the explorer is alive (e.g. changing stance resets the ROF) then ye, that would be game feature exploiting.
As for the crackshot cancel it is game feature exploit but also very abusable in certain cases. It's mostly the impact that it can have in the game that makes it a cheat. And that's cause it can be used with pretty much any unit that has a special attack. It might not be gamebreaking in treasure gathering but certainly it is with Iroquois WC vs opponent's units.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by deleted_user »

Lmao, just look at which users in this thread are saying it's "nbd."

Tells ya all you need to know.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by deleted_user0 »

rofl, if you unimaginative noobcakes only knew the truth XD
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by momuuu »

I don't get why some of you are acting as if you're taking moral high ground here. In many games bugs appear, and the normal stance is that you are allowed to use it unless a statement by the developers is made or more commonly until it is patched out. There are many instances where bugs end up being considered interesting gameplay features, and the people of that community aren't instantly calling it cheating.

For example, just have a look at this: https://youtu.be/rWvoMrYCQBU?t=10m36s
Or consider this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-str ... ivac-drops
Which ends up still being in the game 7 years later.

We don't have a developer or anything, so it becomes less clear what's allowed and not. That doesn't mean that anything should clearly be disallowed if it's not functioning exactly like intended. I've always thought alt-d is not a terrible game mechanic, and I don't think this rof trick is a bad aspect of the game: it requires skill to pull off and anyone can do it.

The bottom line is that all of those people claiming it's obvious and mandatory to consider any usage of a seemingly unintended feature cheating are simply oblivious to the truth. And this isn't just in starcraft games, I think there's also cases where this happens in games like dota, super smash, overwatch etc.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

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Post by EAGLEMUT »

Well, it is clearly abuse of a glitch in the game, your explorers/warchiefs/monitors/whatever are meant to have a reload time, not obliterate everything around them in a matter of seconds when you have high APM.

[Armag] diarouga wrote:My point of view:
Eventhough some will say it's cheating, anyone can use this glitch and it's not game breaking and requires some skill. Thus, to me it's just like the no pillar walls, or using units to run with other units and totally legit, so I use it in my games, however ESOC thinks it's cheating and doesn't allow it in tourneys.


Depends on the definition of game-breaking, but I think it could be argued having godmode explorers and monitors is game-breaking. I would say it's at least worse than alt-d, as this has essentially no downside as long as you have the APM to execute it.
Interesting thing about this glitch is that it's been abused by just about everyone since the beginning of time. Cancelling reload animation to use crackshot is like the most standard way to take treasures, except players did not realize for a long time that it can be repeated infinitely. Using it for this purpose or by a mistake is what makes banning it a bit of a grey area that needs to be clearly outlined I think.

Thus, to me it's just like the no pillar walls

Are you referring to defining a special hotkey which instantly deletes all pillars without selecting them? I think that's basically considered to automate gameplay on par with "unit trainers" that automatically make the right units for you without selecting anything. This pillar hotkey "cheat" should probably just get added to EP anti-cheat detection.
If you're referring to regularly deleting pillars, I don't consider that a cheat/glitch. It's essentially just smart building placement.

using units to run with other units

This is a defined game mechanic, each unit even has a set maximum running speed. Definitely not a glitch in my book.

momuuu wrote:I don't think this rof trick is a bad aspect of the game: it requires skill to pull off and anyone can do it.

I wanna see whether you maintain this view after someone bombs 100% of your buildings to the ground in 30 seconds using monitors with no reload on Great Lakes.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Garja »

Alt-d exploit is ia terrible game mechanic because it takes away an entire part of the game (explorers are key for TP and TC construction, plus lot of times for scouting). Imagine if that was mutually allowed, the game would become super dumb with explorers going up over and over.
ROF reset is mostly bad because it is super abusable. With monitors you can have like infinite 0.2 ROF which means you can take off a whole base (10 buildings) in about 20 seconds. That's like 100x stronger than the infamous monitor special attack.
Also Iro WC can do infinite fast shoots by canceling its own special attack, basically meaning that you can defend from small infantry groups with just that unit, on top of actually using the special attack.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Hazza54321 »

umeu wrote:rofl, if you unimaginative noobcakes only knew the truth XD

and what would that be
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by deleted_user0 »

play vs japan who continuously alt-d's or iro, or spain, or china. and tell me its not a terrible mechanic lol
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Hazza54321 »

alt d ofc is broken yeah, i was referring to the fast shot, i think vs guardians its ok vs other heroes its kinda stupid haha
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by deleted_user0 »

Hazza54321 wrote:
umeu wrote:rofl, if you unimaginative noobcakes only knew the truth XD

and what would that be


I took a vow of silence. But Eaglemutsch is the prophet!

the other post was for jeruma
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by deleted_user »

momuuu wrote:I don't get why some of you are acting as if you're taking moral high ground here. In many games bugs appear, and the normal stance is that you are allowed to use it unless a statement by the developers is made or more commonly until it is patched out. There are many instances where bugs end up being considered interesting gameplay features, and the people of that community aren't instantly calling it cheating.

For example, just have a look at this: https://youtu.be/rWvoMrYCQBU?t=10m36s
Or consider this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-str ... ivac-drops
Which ends up still being in the game 7 years later.

We don't have a developer or anything, so it becomes less clear what's allowed and not. That doesn't mean that anything should clearly be disallowed if it's not functioning exactly like intended. I've always thought alt-d is not a terrible game mechanic, and I don't think this rof trick is a bad aspect of the game: it requires skill to pull off and anyone can do it.

The bottom line is that all of those people claiming it's obvious and mandatory to consider any usage of a seemingly unintended feature cheating are simply oblivious to the truth. And this isn't just in starcraft games, I think there's also cases where this happens in games like dota, super smash, overwatch etc.
Are you taking the moral high ground by saying others are taking the moral high ground in a thread about an unintended gameplay mechanic (i.e. nothing really moral about it)? :hmm:
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Snuden »

I have used the running vill trick for the past 1150 games, it's called a dragbox.
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Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Kaiserklein »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:My point of view:
Eventhough some will say it's cheating, anyone can use this glitch and it's not game breaking and requires some skill. Thus, to me it's just like the no pillar walls, or using units to run with other units and totally legit, so I use it in my games, however ESOC thinks it's cheating and doesn't allow it in tourneys.

Everyone being able to do something, or that thing requiring some skill, doesn't mean it's legit... Everyone can get a maphack, and it probably takes skill to maphack without getting spotted, but it's still not legit.
The explo bug is obviously a glitch. Abusing it should be considered as cheating. There is a ROF of 3 for the explorer at range, not less.

The walls with pillars make no sense, since the pillars are literally useless. I don't think deleting them is a glitch. The wall system is just poorly designed.
The pull trick is nowhere close to a glitch. Iirc it's even coded in the files, somethink like "max speed". For example most units with 4 speed have a max speed of 6 I think, which means they can potentially sprint 50% faster than their regular speed. Some units, like the envoy or the livestock, have their normal speed equal to their max speed, which means they can't ever sprint. So it looks to me like it was intended.
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