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United States of America CurassierAndCurassier
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 160
ESO: Montcalm17
Location: San Francisco

09 Jul 2018, 18:02

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ESOC Autumn Championship 2018
Will be seeded by EP ELO


This year, we are going to pre-seed 36 players by taking the 36 top ELO ratings on the ESOC Patch. You can see the top ten on the scoreboard to the left and you can check anyone's rank by typing their name in here:
https://eso-community.net/ladder.php

The pre-seeding will be announced Sunday, September 2nd.

Autumn 2018 Schedule

  • Stage 1: The Qualifying Rounds: September 3rd - September 16th
    The Qualifying Stage
  • Stage 2: Placements: September 17th - September 23rd
    Placements
  • Stage 3: Brackets: September 24th - October 28th
    Brackets
If you get knocked out before the brackets start, you'll be eligible for the Second Chance Tournament because going home after the group stage is painful. Don't believe me? Just ask the entire nation of Germany.

More information about the ESOC Autumn Championship 2018 will be coming soon.
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Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 13564
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

09 Jul 2018, 20:11

Time to farm new accounts/lower friends that havent played much for ELO. Should be ezpz to actually cheat your way to top ten.

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 5842
ESO: Garja

09 Jul 2018, 20:57

Actually it is not anymore. GL getting in top ten now with a new account.
Great Britain Hazza54321
Jaeger
Posts: 4353

09 Jul 2018, 21:44

prepare the smurfs lads!, get all 10 in top elo
Venividivici_w: i heard h20 signed up last minute. Prob waited for roby not signing up so he wouldnt get smashed again
My recently started youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChh6jN ... 15ZhFONCBg
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Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 13564
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

09 Jul 2018, 21:48

Garja wrote:Actually it is not anymore. GL getting in top ten now with a new account.

It doesnt seem hard to farm 1600 elo accounts to get to 1750ish which is enough for a top 32 spot.

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
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United States of America musketeer925
ESOC Dev Team
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Posts: 1656
ESO: musketeer925
GameRanger Id: 451878

09 Jul 2018, 21:51

You guys think you're gaming the system, but exactly the point of using the EP ladder for seeding is to encourage people to play more EP games...

If you see someone is actually point trading on the ladder, report it to an admin.
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
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ESO: Garja

09 Jul 2018, 21:56

momuuu wrote:
Garja wrote:Actually it is not anymore. GL getting in top ten now with a new account.

It doesnt seem hard to farm 1600 elo accounts to get to 1750ish which is enough for a top 32 spot.

It is. Then again, I don't want to have a discussion. If someone can achieve that, better for him.
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Germany Lukas_L99
Lancer
Donator 01
Posts: 932
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: Frankfurt

09 Jul 2018, 22:09

So if your main acc isn’t in the top40 but you have an alt account in the top40, with which account do you have to sign up? :hmm:
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Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 13564
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

09 Jul 2018, 22:22

musketeer925 wrote:You guys think you're gaming the system, but exactly the point of using the EP ladder for seeding is to encourage people to play more EP games...

If you see someone is actually point trading on the ladder, report it to an admin.

Look, people will all be close to 1600 elo at the start. I could convince you for example to play 10 games with me and Id gain more ELO than reasonable given the skill gap. Repeat this with as many people as possible and you can actually game the system because there have not been enough ep games and because too many people also or mostly play RE and find games based on pr. Its surprisingly exploitable unfortunately.

"When life give you incompetence, participate in the betting" - Jerom, winner of autumn betting, 2016
"but wer eyiu playig a gainst someone as magnificent as jerom? thats wha ti thogutb jerom is a beaaitful human being"- Mr_Bramboy
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United States of America musketeer925
ESOC Dev Team
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ESO: musketeer925
GameRanger Id: 451878

09 Jul 2018, 22:29

The more people exploit it, the less exploitable it becomes. Every game's rating system works this way, and many games reset their ladders seasonally (creating even more "potential" for exploitation). There's nothing surprising about it.
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Tuvalu gibson
Gendarme
Posts: 7470
Location: USA

09 Jul 2018, 22:30

momuuu wrote:
musketeer925 wrote:You guys think you're gaming the system, but exactly the point of using the EP ladder for seeding is to encourage people to play more EP games...

If you see someone is actually point trading on the ladder, report it to an admin.

Look, people will all be close to 1600 elo at the start. I could convince you for example to play 10 games with me and Id gain more ELO than reasonable given the skill gap. Repeat this with as many people as possible and you can actually game the system because there have not been enough ep games and because too many people also or mostly play RE and find games based on pr. Its surprisingly exploitable unfortunately.
play on EP right now?
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 5842
ESO: Garja

09 Jul 2018, 22:37

How much elo are you gaining playing 10 games with the same person, both at 1600? Soon you will be 1700 and he will be 1500. At that point you gain like 2 points per game. GL advancing with that, especially when losing just 1 games put you back by 20 points.
It is possible to rank up or down, because the system is still fresh, but to do that you need to play vs somewhat decent player and whose elo is close to your objective. E.g. to be 1750 you need to play with 1650 and up only and then 1700+ only. This is because you will inevitably lose some games. If you play vs a 1600 player you need 100 games, assuming all wins. And it can easily be seen as point trading anyway.
United States of America jesus3
Howdah
Posts: 1007

09 Jul 2018, 22:41

Lukas_L99 wrote:So if your main acc isn’t in the top40 but you have an alt account in the top40, with which account do you have to sign up? :hmm:


exactly the same thought. Jesus3 is kinda low, but the other one(s) look more promising :hmm:
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
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ESO: Garja

09 Jul 2018, 22:47

Lukas_L99 wrote:So if your main acc isn’t in the top40 but you have an alt account in the top40, with which account do you have to sign up? :hmm:

Well, unless you want to get a worse seed you obviously sign up with the highest one.

One relevant thing about smurfs is that it reduces the number of actual players in the given threshold. This has to be taken into account when seeding.
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United States of America musketeer925
ESOC Dev Team
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ESO: musketeer925
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09 Jul 2018, 22:58

My personal opinion (and does not necessarily reflect tournament policy) on "smurfs" and alt accounts:

1. A "smurf" is an account that someone uses, without disclosing it was theirs, and pretending to be a new person. Thus smurfing in a tournament requires making a new forum account. Obviously, this is against the rules.
2. An "alt account" is one of several accounts on which you play and have publicly disclosed as yours. (By signing up with your forum account, you're associating that ESO account with your forum account and acknowledging that we can disclose that association.) Absolutely nothing wrong with signing up with whatever ESO account you want, provided only you play on it and you use the same forum account you've always used.
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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
ESOC Dev Team
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ESO: EAGLEMUT
Location: [WPact]

09 Jul 2018, 23:05

musketeer925 wrote:My personal opinion (and does not necessarily reflect tournament policy) on "smurfs" and alt accounts:

[...]Absolutely nothing wrong with signing up with whatever ESO account you want, provided only you play on it and you use the same forum account you've always used.

Personal opinions aside, what you describe would indeed be a direct violation of rules in most events ran to date.

For example, see rule 3.6 of last seasonal.
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momuuu wrote:theres no way eaglemut is truly a top player
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
EWT
Posts: 5374
Location: Paris
GameRanger Id: 5529322

09 Jul 2018, 23:26

Just use the highest ELO acc that you legitimately ranked up
My YouTube channel

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

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United States of America musketeer925
ESOC Dev Team
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ESO: musketeer925
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09 Jul 2018, 23:36

EAGLEMUT wrote:
musketeer925 wrote:My personal opinion (and does not necessarily reflect tournament policy) on "smurfs" and alt accounts:

[...]Absolutely nothing wrong with signing up with whatever ESO account you want, provided only you play on it and you use the same forum account you've always used.

Personal opinions aside, what you describe would indeed be a direct violation of rules in most events ran to date.

For example, see rule 3.6 of last seasonal.


Yeah, but has that ever been enforced? What even is a "main" account? The tournament system, from a technical standpoint, is explicitly designed to allow a single forum user to use different ESO accounts across different tournaments.

Without a better definition, it seems reasonable to me to claim any of the following criteria to determine my "main" account:

- The account that has the oldest registration date
- The account which has played the most games
- The account with the highest rank (by any metric -- PR, JP Elo, ESOC EP Elo, ESOC official Elo... in any game mode)
- The account with the name most similar to my forum name
- The account on which the most games have been played in the past 3 months (or variations of time span)
- The account which has been logged into ESO for the longest total duration
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United States of America musketeer925
ESOC Dev Team
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ESO: musketeer925
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10 Jul 2018, 00:12

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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
ESOC Dev Team
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Posts: 2483
ESO: EAGLEMUT
Location: [WPact]

10 Jul 2018, 00:40

Sounds like questions for the media team. I imagine it's ultimately on their judgement whether an account is or isn't a main account, based on which account fulfills most of the criteria you mentioned and perhaps some other criteria.
I think the idea is to prevent a situation where top1 seed player signs up on an alt conscript account for the luls, causing a slew of uninteresting matches and terrible experience for both other participants and viewers throughout the whole event.
Another aspect is, imagine how bad it would look on the brackets and streams if all top players signed up as randomly named alt accounts that nobody really knows about. People will then stumble upon the content and just leave when they don't see any known names whatsoever.
Has there been too much leniency in enforcing this rule? Maybe, maybe not... I actually find that table surprisingly small.
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momuuu wrote:theres no way eaglemut is truly a top player
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
EWT
Posts: 5374
Location: Paris
GameRanger Id: 5529322

10 Jul 2018, 00:47

Imo just force everyone to sign up on their main acc. If someone wants to sign up on a smurf, he has to talk to esoc staff and explain why, and then esoc decides to allow it or not (for example, I don't have any treaty games on kaiserklein, so I'd have to sign up on gimmicks for a treaty tourney).
Signing up with a smurf without any good reason should be forbidden imo.
My YouTube channel

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

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United States of America musketeer925
ESOC Dev Team
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ESO: musketeer925
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10 Jul 2018, 00:58

Yeah, I agree that it would definitely be bad if everyone signed up with brand new, random accounts every tournament. However it does make some sense to seed with something other than just "main" accounts. I think it'd be reasonable for H2O to want to be seeded by Howdah_Bout_That for example. Perhaps allowing players to seed by their highest active account (using some defined metric for active), but play as their main (to solve the unrecognized names problem) would be reasonable. We could also just display forum name in brackets, etc., to help clarify that.
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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
Retired Contributor
Posts: 4526
ESO: mr_bramboy
Location: Amsterdam

10 Jul 2018, 09:13

momuuu wrote:
Garja wrote:Actually it is not anymore. GL getting in top ten now with a new account.

It doesnt seem hard to farm 1600 elo accounts to get to 1750ish which is enough for a top 32 spot.

Except all accounts are checked for that very thing, which you should be aware of, and any cheating will result in a lengthy ban.

musketeer925 wrote:Yeah, I agree that it would definitely be bad if everyone signed up with brand new, random accounts every tournament. However it does make some sense to seed with something other than just "main" accounts. I think it'd be reasonable for H2O to want to be seeded by Howdah_Bout_That for example. Perhaps allowing players to seed by their highest active account (using some defined metric for active), but play as their main (to solve the unrecognized names problem) would be reasonable. We could also just display forum name in brackets, etc., to help clarify that.

Using the seed of another account while signing up with the new account is something that ESOC's been doing for years. Examples that I can think of off the top of my head are gibson and umeu.
France flontier
Musketeer
Posts: 70
ESO: Flontier

10 Jul 2018, 10:41

Seems logic to use the account which represent the best the level of the player so the one with the most ep game played like more you play more your rank is representative and anyway if its not the "historical" account ("main" is subjective).
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United States of America _H2O
ESOC Business Team
Donator 06
Posts: 3192

10 Jul 2018, 11:42

Ideally I would just get the same rating on my actual account. The best way to avoid getting caught up in admin decisions is to follow the rules! :)

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