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Gendarme
Posts: 7757
ESO: Funnu
Location: Ramadanistan

04 Nov 2018, 23:38

VooDoo_BoSs wrote:
NekoBerk wrote:
VooDoo_BoSs wrote:Providing them more siege damage and less hitpoints could be a way to make them better at their job without becoming OP, and also reduce the power of Water / FI turtles.


Hit and run and they won't give any damage homie.


That's fine, but I think they aren't as good vs buildings as they should be - their primary purpose.
While I agree, they are good vs buildings, for sure, and I don't see it being the reason they aren't used.
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No Flag umeu
Gendarme
Posts: 8634

05 Nov 2018, 03:06

momuuu wrote:Be careful with what you wish for. Grenadiers have more potential than you might think. Their problem isn't actually the damage or hitpoints or their tags, the problem is that grens have terrible range and probably the worst animation in the game. Trying to fight anything with range is just impossible. But once these things get in a straight up fight and are combined with the upgrade from the Arsenal they are absolute beasts. It's just that anything with range hit and runs them to death.


they have 12 range like musketeers. but ye the animation sux. and ye, imo it should be a barracks unit. i guess this only kinda creates problems for russia.
No Flag greatscythe11
Musketeer
Posts: 68
ESO: greatscythe11

05 Nov 2018, 03:59

Well, in Brit vs Russia for example, if the brit guy mixes grens with musk huss and sends cav hp, can the longer cav snare work with the gren animation?
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Germany yemshi
Jaeger
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ESO: yemshi
Location: Germany

05 Nov 2018, 05:59

Why send cav HP for 5 cav if you can send complete inf combat?
No Flag greatscythe11
Musketeer
Posts: 68
ESO: greatscythe11

05 Nov 2018, 06:53

I feel like there's no easy way for russia to deal with cav hp as boyars dont help russian muskets. Cav snare is useful to catch cav or infantry. It also discourages massing strelets. Strelets do take 3 swings from hussars(in comparison 2 swings from uhlans ) and considering their numbers that can be a lot of work for hussars. Further melee units, past a number, are hard to fully utilize. Also , brit generally have a strong eco for training units so adding an upgrade from home city can be worth consideration. Furthermore since both strelets and cossack have both 30% rr and are quite cheap(one resource wise and one popwise), ranged fire seems a harder way to counter the russian army in comparison to melee or siege damage.
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Poland pecelot
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ESO: Pezet
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05 Nov 2018, 10:17

momuuu wrote:I think their slow animation doenst underline their main weakness, it IS their main weakness. In straight up fights well microed grenadiers perform great. In occasional trolling that Ive done I have always been amazed by their performance. At some critical mass they become very deadly once theyre actually lobbing those bombs. I actually think grens from the barracks could straight up be viable right now, especially with a little fixing of that animation.

Oh, yes, that's what I meant; were it not for the slow animation, their terrible melee combat capabilities and range wouldn't be such an issue. It's like having 20-range skirms with 3 speed.
:idea:
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Holy See Imperial Noob
Dragoon
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ESO: M1Karox/ImperialNoob
Location: Dresden, Germany

07 Dec 2018, 21:31

Grenadiers being HI is reasonable. Just give them x4 vs cav in melee and fix animation.

Animations should be sped up or altered whenever they are clearly broken.
Grenadier attack -> faster
Renegado attack -> faster
all Archers -> like Yumi, without that buggy animation which makes them always set up first and gets reset if their initial target dies... Also, what is it with archer units missing? This should be deleted
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http://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=11543
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
EWT - Playoff
Posts: 5896
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

07 Dec 2018, 22:24

I agree the best way to buff grenadiers is probably to fix their animation. However, renegados have insane stats besides their horrible animation. If you give them a faster animation they're totally op.
Yumis shoot just fine, you probably mean lbs/aennas/cetans. Again, if these didn't have that shitty animation, they would be op (especially lbs). But yeah not sure why bows miss shots sometimes, it sucks.
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well I have better mechanics than you
tbh tower rush is a good strat
Germany supernapoleon
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08 Dec 2018, 00:04

I always wondered how good grens are in treaty. With Brits you can send a lot of upgrades and in treaty ypu do not run back and forth woth your whole army so the animation is kind of no problem. I think I will test them.
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Netherlands momuuu
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Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

08 Dec 2018, 00:06

supernapoleon wrote:I always wondered how good grens are in treaty. With Brits you can send a lot of upgrades and in treaty ypu do not run back and forth woth your whole army so the animation is kind of no problem. I think I will test them.

Weren't grens meta at some point? I recall that treaty pros back in 2010 or so thought that it was good to mix in a few grens.

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Poland pecelot
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08 Dec 2018, 00:07

how do you even counter renegados? legit question
:idea:
Germany supernapoleon
Lancer
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ESO: Supernapoleon
Location: Munich

08 Dec 2018, 00:07

I mean you could send the church card, advanced arsenal, 3 musk/gren cards and the additional damage card for grens plus maybe team cards.
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Germany supernapoleon
Lancer
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ESO: Supernapoleon
Location: Munich

08 Dec 2018, 00:08

momuuu wrote:
supernapoleon wrote:I always wondered how good grens are in treaty. With Brits you can send a lot of upgrades and in treaty ypu do not run back and forth woth your whole army so the animation is kind of no problem. I think I will test them.

Weren't grens meta at some point? I recall that treaty pros back in 2010 or so thought that it was good to mix in a few grens.

I don't know, I wans't active bach then. Right now noone is using them. Maybe @dicktator_ knows
"I'M SOOOOOO GOOD AT THE GAME"
Hazza wrote: "I mad u win cos u get carried all game and have to lame every game"
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United States of America dicktator_
Lancer
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Posts: 913
ESO: Conquerer999

08 Dec 2018, 01:30

supernapoleon wrote:
momuuu wrote:
supernapoleon wrote:I always wondered how good grens are in treaty. With Brits you can send a lot of upgrades and in treaty ypu do not run back and forth woth your whole army so the animation is kind of no problem. I think I will test them.

Weren't grens meta at some point? I recall that treaty pros back in 2010 or so thought that it was good to mix in a few grens.

I don't know, I wans't active bach then. Right now noone is using them. Maybe @dicktator_ knows

Yeah they were meta in 2011 and earlier. Only in mirrors though, and then grens became obsolete when people figured out musk art is just better.
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Canada dansil92
Musketeer
Posts: 81
ESO: dansil92

08 Dec 2018, 02:13

Grens are decent in treaty for brits if your opponent has lots of culverins and you still need lots of seige. Gren goon is decent vs russia. Gren musk is decent vs aztec. They are a really powerful unit stats-wise its just the heavy infantry tag, animation, speed and cost that stop them being hugely useful in supremacy
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France Kaiserklein
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Location: Paris
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08 Dec 2018, 08:42

pecelot wrote:how do you even counter renegados? legit question

They are low hp, can't kite, and are produced super slowly. So you can counter them by just having a lot of musks and going in (for example, 12 sepoys rush shits on 5 renegados). You can counter them with cav obviously. You can counter them with tc fire if they come in your base (similar to abus dying in 2 shots). You can counter them if you have skirms since they have more range and no animation.
Micro tricks

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

iamturk:
well I have better mechanics than you
tbh tower rush is a good strat
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Poland pecelot
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08 Dec 2018, 22:21

nice, I remember struggling against some captain dudes who would rush me on GP with Germany, it was surprisingly effective as I didn't really have a clue how to defeat them; thanks :smile:
:idea:

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