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Netherlands Goodspeed
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16 May 2019, 09:50

I've read them but don't remember such hints, though Dany always seemed to have the potential for madness.

I think at this point, to me, shit writing like the Dothraki cavalry charge, Drogon plot armor, Euron randomly appearing on the same tiny beach Jaime was at, etc are just things to laugh about. What matters, if anything, is the way they end things for the main characters.
Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
XeeleeFlower wrote:I don't mind open endings as long as the story continues at some point
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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16 May 2019, 09:52

I dont know why hbo didnt get new writers then, but must be a legal issue or something. I mean if the executives, the writer of the book and the fans all wanted more, at least they did 2 seasins ago, then surely something shouldve been done.
Yeah I think it is a legal issue. I read something earlier about it not being possible to just get new writers due to who owns the rights to GRRM's story or something, but I couldn't find where I read that.
Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
XeeleeFlower wrote:I don't mind open endings as long as the story continues at some point
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Great Britain Horsemen
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16 May 2019, 09:56

Goodspeed wrote:
Dolan wrote:I'm actually curious, how do you goys do it? How can you find the time to play AOE3, watch movies and do other stuff, after coming home from work?
By not doing whatever you're doing after work which, I gotta ask now... What do you do after work?

He's unemployed
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Romania Dolan
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16 May 2019, 10:37

Goodspeed wrote:
Dolan wrote:I'm actually curious, how do you goys do it? How can you find the time to play AOE3, watch movies and do other stuff, after coming home from work?
By not doing whatever you're doing after work which, I gotta ask now... What do you do after work?

Sometimes I have to go do some errands, like buying stuff before all the stores are closed.
Then I might read something or watch some streams. Until recently I used to play LoL, but the game is too tilting for me so I quit.
Occasionally coworkers and I might crash out somewhere for a drink and some chatter.
Whenever I have some spare time, I usually read. I'm probably addicted to reading about anything. I could spend a few hundred years reading and I'd still not get bored. There's just so much stuff happening on this tiny rotating rock.
I don't know, I do lots of random stuff I don't really plan for too.
What is chaos for the fly is normal for the spider.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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16 May 2019, 10:45

So why is it hard to believe that other people would watch TV shows/movies instead of reading? They're pretty similar hobbies.
Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
XeeleeFlower wrote:I don't mind open endings as long as the story continues at some point
Australia Kawapasaka
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16 May 2019, 15:38

Goodspeed wrote:I've read them but don't remember such hints, though Dany always seemed to have the potential for madness.


One big continuous thing is Viserys' 'voice in her head' so to speak. She continuously thinks back to his advice and takes it. Obviously this isn't really something you can translate into television and they left out most other references to the influence of her pre-series life on her psyche.
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United States of America XeeleeFlower
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16 May 2019, 15:44

@Kawapasaka I don't really know you, but I have to say that I've really enjoyed reading your thoughts in this thread. You should post more often in other threads. I think I like you.
My posts represent my views and may or may not represent the views of ESOC as a whole.

Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

I love good methamphetamine; highly addictive.
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Great Britain Horsemen
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16 May 2019, 16:07

phpBB [video]
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Great Britain Horsemen
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16 May 2019, 16:30

Btw the final episode got spoiled, and you won't believe who becomes king.
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No Flag Djigit
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16 May 2019, 16:35

Horsemen wrote:Btw the final episode got spoiled, and you won't believe who becomes king.
Hagrid
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Great Britain Horsemen
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16 May 2019, 16:40

Djigit wrote:
Horsemen wrote:Btw the final episode got spoiled, and you won't believe who becomes king.
Hagrid

Nope, it's Thanos after he finds the last infinity stone
No Flag umeu
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16 May 2019, 17:27

Kawapasaka wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:I've read them but don't remember such hints, though Dany always seemed to have the potential for madness.


One big continuous thing is Viserys' 'voice in her head' so to speak. She continuously thinks back to his advice and takes it. Obviously this isn't really something you can translate into television and they left out most other references to the influence of her pre-series life on her psyche.


iirc correctly, her advisors were also already starting to doubt her sanity during one of those sieges. I can't look it up now cuz i dont have the books with me but anyway, it seemed to me like it was hinted in any case that it could go either way, though it wasn't yet clear which way it would go.
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United States of America n0el
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16 May 2019, 21:03

umeu wrote:
n0el wrote:I mean the fire part. They invented that Targ's are immune to fire.


They didnt invent that, its just people being wrong. I dont think the show ever said targaryens are immune to fire. Heck i think one even got burned by wildfire. Dany is the only one who survived when her dragons were borne and this also happened in the books. From that ppl assume that targaryens are immune but grmm dismissed this already.


What about when she torched the Dothraki home base and just walked out. GRRM said after that happened that it wasn't consistent with his lore.
No Flag umeu
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17 May 2019, 02:37

n0el wrote:
umeu wrote:
n0el wrote:I mean the fire part. They invented that Targ's are immune to fire.


They didnt invent that, its just people being wrong. I dont think the show ever said targaryens are immune to fire. Heck i think one even got burned by wildfire. Dany is the only one who survived when her dragons were borne and this also happened in the books. From that ppl assume that targaryens are immune but grmm dismissed this already.


What about when she torched the Dothraki home base and just walked out. GRRM said after that happened that it wasn't consistent with his lore.


yea i forgot about that. nvrmind what i said earlier.
Australia Kawapasaka
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17 May 2019, 06:41

XeeleeFlower wrote:@Kawapasaka I don't really know you, but I have to say that I've really enjoyed reading your thoughts in this thread. You should post more often in other threads. I think I like you.


Thanks :P I lurked these forums lightly on occasion over the years but only just created an account because I found myself with a lot of free time recently.
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United States of America n0el
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17 May 2019, 14:15

Djigit wrote:
Horsemen wrote:Btw the final episode got spoiled, and you won't believe who becomes king.
Hagrid

The King we deserve.
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Tuvalu gibson
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20 May 2019, 02:05

Honestly based on how the first 5 episodes went I thought this episode is quite good
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Tuvalu gibson
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Location: USA

20 May 2019, 02:17

I really liked how the scene with Dani speaking to the soldiers was juxtaposed to the scene were she dies. I have a lot of thoughts on it that I'll add later.
Australia Kawapasaka
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20 May 2019, 02:18

They brought my man Edmure back from the abyss just to use him as a throwaway joke :cry:
Italy Mosx
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20 May 2019, 02:22

this ep is not that bad,many good scene but the season 8 is garbage
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Kiribati SirCallen
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Location: Midwest best west

20 May 2019, 02:31

bad show im done spending any effort on it thanks for joining all bye
and the giving famishes the craving
sweet thames, run softly, til I end my song

The shepherd's staff's tantalus around my neck

when I had the mind, I hadn't the skill
now I have the skill, I haven't the mind
Australia Kawapasaka
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20 May 2019, 03:55

Very much unintentional I imagine, but quite funny that Bran's rule is immediately corrupted by an act of nepotism allowing his sister to rule independently but presumably not the rest.
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Tuvalu gibson
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Location: USA

20 May 2019, 05:06

I'm sad that its over and that this last season was so butchered. I want to have high hopes for the spin offs but we'll see.
Australia Kawapasaka
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20 May 2019, 06:58

Anyway, I guess I'll do another thought dump about everything I didn't like.

Overarching storytelling/thematic issues:
- Why was Jon brought back from the dead again? He really didn't do anything, let alone do something that nobody else could've. This is just Melly being wrong I guess?
- Arya wants to go explore West (probably leading an innocent ship crew to certain death too, but whatever) based on one throw-away line 3 seasons ago. What happened to "the lone wolf dies, the pack survives"?
- There is still a united 7 (well, six) kingdoms... This just doesn't fit especially seeing as the North gets a special exception (more on this further down)
- Jaime "died protecting his Queen"... just terrible. This is more a problem with the previous episodes, but it's concluded here. He killed the Mad King to protect the realm, but got no recognition. Killing Cersei to protect the realm and finally being remembered for it would've been the perfect send-off.
- King Bran. Not exactly a lot of build-up for this.

Plot/logic issues:
- North gets independence, nobody else does. I think the writers have forgotten that EVERY kingdom was independent before the Targaryens. Dorne even more so, they even got to retain their prince/princess titles when eventually brought under the fold. Our """""new Prince of Dorne""""" here simply says "Aye" to being ruled by some random Northerner he's never met. Peer pressure I guess.
- Like seriously, not even the fucking Ironborn want to be independent???
- Nobody has any issues with two Starks ruling everything. And the Starks should have virtually zero power base left. The North was already weak to begin with and was devastated by four conflicts, and Winter, throughout the series. Now that Dany's army is out of the equation, our Prince of Dorne and Vale lords should have the most bargaining power here, but they don't even get to speak.
- Bronn, lord of The Reach AND master of coin. Seriously?... truly egregious fanservice. Nice to see Gendry has already settled in as a lord without any issues either.
- Incredibly lazy time-jumps.
- Thematic weather just for the sake of it. It was nice and sunny for the battle of King's Landing, then winter for one day when Dany was doing bad stuff, then nice and sunny again. Who knows what happened to the seasons.
- Who's ruling the Westerlands now? Who's been keeping them under control for so long, anyway?
- Again, everyone acting like Sansa's the most important person on the council. The North has no fucking power.
- What exactly is the point of the Night's Watch now? The White Walkers are dead, the Wildlings are friendly now, and there's a huge hole in the wall. I guess they could've just been pretending it was important to trick Grey Worm, but even amongst themselves they seem to think it still serves a purpose. Defending the realm against bad weather I guess.
- Grey Worm was irrationally and indiscriminately slaughtering prisoners of war simply because they *were* enemies of his Queen. Then someone comes and stabs his Queen. His reaction? "Hmmm, better be reasonable about this and just take him prisoner!"
- So the Unsullied just leave apparently (Also LOL at Davos suggesting a bunch of impotent men should start their own house). Now, what happened to the Dothraki (not to mention WHERE did this endless supply of troops for Dany keep coming from)? Those violent savages, now leaderless? Yeah, they would've gotten right to work raping and pillaging the countryside before looking for a way home. Might've helped the ending seem more "bittersweet" to actually have to deal with the 'too foreign' segments of Dany's invasion force realistically instead of just peacefully sending them on their way.
- "Bran would be the best king because he knows everything. No, none of the Southern lords from completely different cultures/religions are skeptical of this for even a moment. We think he'd be great!"
- Drogon really refused to kill Jon just because he was a Targ? Pretty sure past dragons had no qualms with that. Fairly certain Drogon was meant to have a pretty special bond with Dany too...
- Tyrion doesn't want to be hand (to Bran) - I think they just tacked this on because they were going for the trifecta. Jon doesn't want to rule, but he's forced to! Bran doesn't want to rule, but he's forced to! Tyrion doesn't want to rule, but he's forced to! But Tyrion actually enjoyed being hand last time, didn't he? And that was under a king he despised. But he doesn't want to serve under one he thinks will rule well? What else is he gonna do? Fuck whores until he's dead?
- Why does Brienne get a vote? There are a couple of other voting Lords here who are also just vassals of the major lords. The limitations on who is allowed to vote on this council are ridiculously ambiguous and unfair.
- Nobody is alarmed whenever Bran implies that this was all part of his plan. Do they not wonder, "gee, who else might be next on the chopping block for this spooky kid's vision of the greater good?"

Miscellaneous nitpicking:
- TRULY IT WAS A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE namedrop. I think everyone saw this coming a mile off but it still made me cringe. The real Game of Thrones was the friends we made along the way!
- Jon's LoTR send-off. There's no reason he won't see anyone ever again...
- As I said in a previous post, Edmure being brought back (where the fuck was he anyway) as a punchline. Of course he was never the most major character in the books, but it was just sad to see him turned into pure comic relief even in his first scenes back in season 3. Not even the cool sort of comic relief like Tormund, just the pathetic sort. Horrible character assassination.
- "Bran the broken"... this is not the name you want to inspire your subjects.
- "Where is Drogon?" "Uhhh, he's just gone, lol." Bit of a cop-out.



And if you want a vision of Westeros' future under this system where the King is elected but the lords electing him get to keep their own rule via lineage... look no further than the Holy Roman Empire :uglylol:
Yup, they're doomed. Historically speaking, going from an absolute to an elective monarchy can probably be considered straight-up regressive. There's just gonna be a civil war every time a king dies.
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Great Britain Horsemen
Dragoon
Posts: 262

20 May 2019, 08:12

So the leaks were 100% right

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