Aztec 10 WP semi-FF

[Garja]

Aztec 10 WP semi FF

This is very likely the strongest strategy for Aztecs on EP 7. Not that the traditional rush/boom/contain strategies are bad now, but I just think that with the most recent balance changes the civ can be played in a more meta-based way, similar to how other civs are played. Basically playing a bit more to the civ own strengths rather than trying to exactly counter what the opponent does.
I’ll illustrate in detail the basic build order and then I’ll provide few interesting variations.

Discovery age
Usual stuff, build firepit ASAP and collect treasures minding the last hit (use your pets/converted guardians). If you started with 300w you may want to drop 2 houses directly at the start for max XP before the first card but it’s just a detail.
Send 3vills. Use the fast age opton to colonial when you’re at 15v (16 pop).

Transition to Colonial
Chop wood with 10v until you have enough for 2 houses (40 pop). Send one of the 5v vills tasked to food to herd a nearby hunt.
Once you chopped for the 2 houses put the 10v back on food (for 3jags bb) or directly on firerpit (for quickiest WP boom+xp). Lately I prefer the first option.

Colonial age
Send the 3WP card. Mind hunting. Switch the firepit to the WP generating dance either when the XP bar is about ready for the next card, or in case your vills are all tasked to food when the 3WP arrive. In that case also move 10v to the firepit (start dancing for WP with 10v +4WP).
Next card is 700w. With that drop a war hut, market, 1houses, in this order. Research hunting dogs and placer mines, preferably in this order.
You should be done with the WP dance between the 5.30 and 6.00 min mark, depending on whether you queued the 3jags from the TC BB or not. After that switch immediately the firepit to the XP dance and put all vills on food.
Next card is 5v. When they arrive (it should coincide with finishing the place mine upgrade) move 12 to 15 vills on gold. Aim for 400g when the next card (600g) arrives.
Chop the 600g and age up to fortress. You have 2 options. 2 Noble Huts or the War Chief upgrade. Lately I prefer the second option.

Transition to Fortress
By the time 600g arrived you should have another shipment available. Send 600w and start queing coyotes. You should have 125w spare wood from the 700w crate so can keep all vills on food.
Make two extra batches of coyotes and drop 2 houses. Keep about 18-20 vills on food and move the rest on wood. This is also a good time to research the vill upgrade at the market if you didn’t get it already. Priority is however on coyote batches.
Next card is meant to be Coyote Combat but it can be anything if absolutely necessary. Try to not deviate from this, as it’s the most optimal card order.
Next card is usually 10 maces. This is just a very good card for colonial. It should arrive just when you age up (9.30-10.00 depending on villager idle time).
At that point you should have 15 coyote (with combat) 10 maces, 10WP and the WC with the age up upgrade. It should be enough to hold anything, provided the opponent wasn’t planning a sneaky timing. That’s one thing to scout for, earlier in your build (use pets or even the WC to get info).
Get ready to upgrade your units (coyotes and maces). By this point you should have 200-400w spare wood. Trade food for 200g (don’t bother moving vills on gold it’s just gonna complicate your macro for basically no extra efficiency).

Fortress age
Upgrade your units and send the next card (usually 10 coyote or 13 maces). From here just adapt. If you feel the need, chop for the noble hut and start making some ERK, but usually that’s not the case early on.
At some point you may want 3 extra vills on the firepit so that the attack dance is worth 25% rather than 21% (1/5 to ¼ is quite a break point).
Also you may want the wood upgrade from the market (100f 150g) and the XP upgrade from the firepit (50f 50w 50g).

Variations
This was the basic build, based mostly on making coyote and maces, since they are the most efficient units to produce given the build order (and usually the most useful units as well).
A possible variation around this theme is to send 600g as your last card in transition to fortress, while also getting 400g (either gather it or trade food at the market) to send one of the temple cards in fortress (which have now been buffed).
18 maces + 20% HP + +2 range is frankly just too good and should be used if possible.
Same for 11 coyote + 20% attack + 10% rr.
Another possible variation is to abuse the Aztec WC. In this case send the WC discovery card at any point after 600w and then also the fortress card. Then dance for the WC when you approach the enemy units so that the dude gets 2600+ HPs.
Combine the WC with either a combo of units or even pure spam of just one unit type. For example WC+ full upgraded ERKs is a pretty funny combo to use.
Another possible variation, a bit trolly, is to send both coyote card upgrades (combat and stealth) and go pure coyote, possibly combined with the WC upgrades and/or the Temple card for coyote themselves. Once full upped (remember the attack dance) and with the WC interfering it’s really hard to counter them and their stats are just amazing.
It’s still possible to use this same build to go for a Fast Industrial. In that case you need 600g (twice for the quickiest FI) in transition to fortress.
Both skull knights and JPKs have been buffed this patch so you can abuse them to the max. Again mind using your WC to snare and make it harder for the opponent to counter your units behind him. And don't forget the WC can train jaguars if you sent the discovery age card. Those things autoupgrade with ages and get decent stats for a cheap price.
Finally, it is worth mentioning that you can turn the WP boom into a colonial strat. In that case just proceed with your usual colonial cards after 700w. Aztecs with 10WP scale pretty well. Not only you can fire all your shipments very quickly but you can also switch to the fertility dance to outboom your opponent. The attack dance also provides one of the most cost efficient colonial armies in the game.

Deck
The deck should be something like this. Can swap the Industrial cards for unit/eco upgrades or even have more of them. Also can add the Temple card for ERK replacing 8v or 1k wood.
Feel free to add schooners and/or some other card for water maps if you think they will be useful.

[GiBthedurrty]

!

[Garja]

Forgot to mention but I guess it's trivial whoever use this in tourney will have a big edge since Aztecs have been overbuffed.

[vividlyplain]

is it ever worth it to use fertility dance in discovery after your first shipment arrives to squeak in an extra vill without delaying your age up? i remember reading this in an old post of yours @Garja

[Hazza54321]

Good build, does quite well vs china

[Challenger_Marco]

oh wow Garja !,make new aztec guide now !

[[Armag] diarouga]

Ah, the rouga build. It's quite good, especially on the RE where you can abuse the explorer.

I'd add :
1) Do not collect for 2 houses while aging to colonial unless you want to send the BB, it's a waste of 200VS else.
2) "Switch the firepit to the WP generating dance when the XP bar is about ready". It doesn't make a big difference but if you want to get some free exp, train a first WP and then switch the firepit to exp dance. You'll have the shipment in time and you'll have 1 more priest dancing for 40 seconds.
3) If you only chopped for 1 house while aging, you have to build your 3rd house very fast from 700w.
4) I don't recommand placer mine. It will cost a lot of VS and it's only 10% so it will take a lot of time before it's worth. Also you're short on wood with this build.
5) In the true rouga build, you get 4-5 pikes from the wh. It's better than the BB to defend raids and it's not more expensive since you don't have to chop for a house.
6) I usually just send 2 age 2 shipments after aging (600w/10 maces) but I guess coyote combat is fine if you want to make a lot of coyotes (on the RE you don't need to as your WC will do the coyote job). It's probably better to send 10 maces before coyote combat by the way.
7) "Trade food for 200g (don’t bother moving vills on gold it’s just gonna complicate your macro for basically no extra efficiency)." I agree with this, but it's another reason why you shouldn't get placer mine.
8) I think you need 5 eagles, else you don't have enough military shipments in fortress (8v is useless in 1v1).

The strengh of this build is its flexibility. You can play colonial, fortress and even industrial after the 10wp start but honestly the ff, although it works well in practice, is just weaker than a fre/ger ff. You'll get outranged by skirms and there's not much you can do if your opponent doesn't waste his skirm mass against your coyotes (which actually happens often).

[Challenger_Marco]

diarouga aztec guide anytime soon? please

[chronique]

This kinf of build can realy hold some age3 push?? Age at 9.30-10 looks pretty late vs ff civ.

[zoom]

3WP over 5V confirmed!

Great stuff!

[Garja]

is it ever worth it to use fertility dance in discovery after your first shipment arrives to squeak in an extra vill without delaying your age up? i remember reading this in an old post of yours @Garja

Not really.

Ah, the rouga build. It's quite good, especially on the RE where you can abuse the explorer.

I'd add :
1) Do not collect for 2 houses while aging to colonial unless you want to send the BB, it's a waste of 200VS else.
2) "Switch the firepit to the WP generating dance when the XP bar is about ready". It doesn't make a big difference but if you want to get some free exp, train a first WP and then switch the firepit to exp dance. You'll have the shipment in time and you'll have 1 more priest dancing for 40 seconds.
3) If you only chopped for 1 house while aging, you have to build your 3rd house very fast from 700w.
4) I don't recommand placer mine. It will cost a lot of VS and it's only 10% so it will take a lot of time before it's worth. Also you're short on wood with this build.
5) In the true rouga build, you get 4-5 pikes from the wh. It's better than the BB to defend raids and it's not more expensive since you don't have to chop for a house.
6) I usually just send 2 age 2 shipments after aging (600w/10 maces) but I guess coyote combat is fine if you want to make a lot of coyotes (on the RE you don't need to as your WC will do the coyote job). It's probably better to send 10 maces before coyote combat by the way.
7) "Trade food for 200g (don’t bother moving vills on gold it’s just gonna complicate your macro for basically no extra efficiency)." I agree with this, but it's another reason why you shouldn't get placer mine.
8) I think you need 5 eagles, else you don't have enough military shipments in fortress (8v is useless in 1v1).

The strengh of this build is its flexibility. You can play colonial, fortress and even industrial after the 10wp start but honestly the ff, although it works well in practice, is just weaker than a fre/ger ff. You'll get outranged by skirms and there's not much you can do if your opponent doesn't waste his skirm mass against your coyotes (which actually happens often).

That's not your build let's be clear. Even Jap dudes where doing some sort of this in 2012. Anyway:
1. Always chop for 2 houses. The reason is that 700w will not arrive in time and you will be housed at the 9th WP. This was more true when I used to dance withall vills but 5 (TC rally point to the firepit for new vills), but if the opponent is rushing you hard you can't send 10 maces or spam warriors so you want the 2nd house anyway. And you will need it need it regardless later on.
2. The reason why you switch dance when bar is almost complete si to have 700w with no delay after 3wp. You need that for housing (not so strict if you chopped for 2 already) but also for WH etc. Also it's basically more efficient to start dancing for WP when 3WP arrive rather than directly with only 1WP. That's because of how the training time curve works.
3. Still you get housed on the last WP if everything else is perfect. Plus first thing is better to be the WH as you need it for defense and it's the building which takes the most time to be built.
4. It's true you can skip placer mines. In the ned you're only gonna chop 400g until you need erks. And even then you can send 800g. It's just that you spare wood and and it's perfect macro (placer mines finishes when 5v arrive). If you chop any extra gold (e.g. for the temple cards) it is probably worth it. And it's likely you will chop gold at some point btw. In fact sometimes you're pinned in base and can't go to the next hunt so rather than having 20 idle vills you put all of them on gold and send a temple card.
5. It's not better than the BB. Not only pikes are more expensive (and you need to shuffle vills across resources with is less efficient to begin with) but also they can't go stealth later on. JPKs are useless for the most part in the fortress age so I usually just use them as spies. Also JPKs help even vs HI pressure while pikes don't.
6. Coyote combat is because of this strat. If the plan is to abuse the WC+ERK, for example, I'd send the WC discovery card. Also let's be honest you didn't even use to send 600w until you saw it from someone
7. Ok
8. Arguable but I do also like 5 eagles just because that way I can skip the noble hut for the most part. 8v is neglectable I agree. 1k wood is usually equivalent as you make a 2nd TC and pump out vills with fertility dance. However 8v is the closest thing you have to a food boost which often you need as Aztecs. Even when you're out of hunts 8v directly on wood speed up the farm transitioning. I'd also consider 3 farms instead. When you have steady-infinite food income it's very easy to get as many vills as you want with the fertility dance.

This kinf of build can realy hold some age3 push?? Age at 9.30-10 looks pretty late vs ff civ.

Check out my games from the rec pack vs Spain and Otto. If you mean generic fortress civ, then even more so. Aging up with the War Chief grants the special attack and with that you can kill the falcs. And to be fair it's not even necessary with all the other stuff you get.

[[Armag] diarouga]

is it ever worth it to use fertility dance in discovery after your first shipment arrives to squeak in an extra vill without delaying your age up? i remember reading this in an old post of yours @Garja

Not really.

Ah, the rouga build. It's quite good, especially on the RE where you can abuse the explorer.

I'd add :
1) Do not collect for 2 houses while aging to colonial unless you want to send the BB, it's a waste of 200VS else.
2) "Switch the firepit to the WP generating dance when the XP bar is about ready". It doesn't make a big difference but if you want to get some free exp, train a first WP and then switch the firepit to exp dance. You'll have the shipment in time and you'll have 1 more priest dancing for 40 seconds.
3) If you only chopped for 1 house while aging, you have to build your 3rd house very fast from 700w.
4) I don't recommand placer mine. It will cost a lot of VS and it's only 10% so it will take a lot of time before it's worth. Also you're short on wood with this build.
5) In the true rouga build, you get 4-5 pikes from the wh. It's better than the BB to defend raids and it's not more expensive since you don't have to chop for a house.
6) I usually just send 2 age 2 shipments after aging (600w/10 maces) but I guess coyote combat is fine if you want to make a lot of coyotes (on the RE you don't need to as your WC will do the coyote job). It's probably better to send 10 maces before coyote combat by the way.
7) "Trade food for 200g (don’t bother moving vills on gold it’s just gonna complicate your macro for basically no extra efficiency)." I agree with this, but it's another reason why you shouldn't get placer mine.
8) I think you need 5 eagles, else you don't have enough military shipments in fortress (8v is useless in 1v1).

The strengh of this build is its flexibility. You can play colonial, fortress and even industrial after the 10wp start but honestly the ff, although it works well in practice, is just weaker than a fre/ger ff. You'll get outranged by skirms and there's not much you can do if your opponent doesn't waste his skirm mass against your coyotes (which actually happens often).

That's not your build let's be clear. Even Jap dudes where doing some sort of this in 2012. Anyway:
1. Always chop for 2 houses. The reason is that 700w will not arrive in time and you will be housed at the 9th WP. This was more true when I used to dance will all vills but 5 (TC rally point to the firepit for new vills), but if the opponent is rushing you hard you can't send 10 maces or spam warriors so you want the 2nd house anyway. And you will need it need it regardless later on.
2. The reason why you switch dance when bar is almost complete si to have 700w with no delay after 3wp. You need that for housing (not so strict if you chopped for 2 already) but also for WH etc. Also it's basically more efficient to start dancing for WP when 3WP arrive rather than directly with only 1WP. That's because of how the training time curve works.
3. Still you get housed on the last WP if everything else is perfect. Plus first thing is better to be the WH as you need it for defense and it's the building which takes the most time to be built.
4. It's true you can skip placer mines. In the ned you're only gonna chop 400g until you need erks. And even then you can send 800g. It's just that you spare wood and and it's perfect macro (placer mines finishes when 5v arrive). If you chop any extra gold (e.g. for the temple cards) it is probably worth it. And it's likely you will chop gold at some point btw. In fact sometimes you're pinned in base and can't go to the next hunt so rather than having 20 idle vills you put all of them on gold and send a temple card.
5. It's not better than the BB. Not only pikes are more expensive (and you need to shuffle vills across resources with is less efficient to begin with) but also they can't go stealth later on. JPKs are useless for the most part in the fortress age so I usually just use them as spies. Also JPKs help even vs HI pressure while pikes don't.
6. Coyote combat is because of this strat. If the plan is to abuse the WC+ERK, for example, I'd send the WC discovery card. Also let's be honest you didn't even use to send 600w until you saw it from someone
7. Ok
8. Arguable but I do also like 5 eagles just because that way I can skip the noble hut for the most part. 8v is neglectable I agree. 1k wood is usually equivalent as you make a 2nd TC and pump out vills with fertility dance. However 8v is the closest thing you have to a food boost which often you need as Aztecs. Even when you're out of hunts 8v directly on wood speed up the farm transitioning. I'd also consider 3 farms instead. When you have steady-infinite food income it's very easy to get as many vills as you want with the fertility dance.

1. You won't be housed. I've done this build hundred of times and never had this issue. Also your 700w shipment comes at 5min so you totally have time to build a house (and a warhut) against a rush.
2. You don't only dance with 1wp, you dance with 1wp and 10vills so it's not less efficient. And having an extra wp sooner is a big deal.
3. You can totally do wp/house and not get housed.
4.You need to gather like 1000g for it to be worth and you won't do that often. And even then, with the snowball effect it would be better to save that wood+the house to build a TP althought it's an overkill.
5. Jaguars do not help against HI pressure, they get sniped. Furthermore, nobody will do a HI pressure. Pikes are better because they're faster and they can catch the cav raids.

[Garja]

is it ever worth it to use fertility dance in discovery after your first shipment arrives to squeak in an extra vill without delaying your age up? i remember reading this in an old post of yours @Garja

Not really.

Ah, the rouga build. It's quite good, especially on the RE where you can abuse the explorer.

I'd add :
1) Do not collect for 2 houses while aging to colonial unless you want to send the BB, it's a waste of 200VS else.
2) "Switch the firepit to the WP generating dance when the XP bar is about ready". It doesn't make a big difference but if you want to get some free exp, train a first WP and then switch the firepit to exp dance. You'll have the shipment in time and you'll have 1 more priest dancing for 40 seconds.
3) If you only chopped for 1 house while aging, you have to build your 3rd house very fast from 700w.
4) I don't recommand placer mine. It will cost a lot of VS and it's only 10% so it will take a lot of time before it's worth. Also you're short on wood with this build.
5) In the true rouga build, you get 4-5 pikes from the wh. It's better than the BB to defend raids and it's not more expensive since you don't have to chop for a house.
6) I usually just send 2 age 2 shipments after aging (600w/10 maces) but I guess coyote combat is fine if you want to make a lot of coyotes (on the RE you don't need to as your WC will do the coyote job). It's probably better to send 10 maces before coyote combat by the way.
7) "Trade food for 200g (don’t bother moving vills on gold it’s just gonna complicate your macro for basically no extra efficiency)." I agree with this, but it's another reason why you shouldn't get placer mine.
8) I think you need 5 eagles, else you don't have enough military shipments in fortress (8v is useless in 1v1).

The strengh of this build is its flexibility. You can play colonial, fortress and even industrial after the 10wp start but honestly the ff, although it works well in practice, is just weaker than a fre/ger ff. You'll get outranged by skirms and there's not much you can do if your opponent doesn't waste his skirm mass against your coyotes (which actually happens often).

That's not your build let's be clear. Even Jap dudes where doing some sort of this in 2012. Anyway:
1. Always chop for 2 houses. The reason is that 700w will not arrive in time and you will be housed at the 9th WP. This was more true when I used to dance will all vills but 5 (TC rally point to the firepit for new vills), but if the opponent is rushing you hard you can't send 10 maces or spam warriors so you want the 2nd house anyway. And you will need it need it regardless later on.
2. The reason why you switch dance when bar is almost complete si to have 700w with no delay after 3wp. You need that for housing (not so strict if you chopped for 2 already) but also for WH etc. Also it's basically more efficient to start dancing for WP when 3WP arrive rather than directly with only 1WP. That's because of how the training time curve works.
3. Still you get housed on the last WP if everything else is perfect. Plus first thing is better to be the WH as you need it for defense and it's the building which takes the most time to be built.
4. It's true you can skip placer mines. In the ned you're only gonna chop 400g until you need erks. And even then you can send 800g. It's just that you spare wood and and it's perfect macro (placer mines finishes when 5v arrive). If you chop any extra gold (e.g. for the temple cards) it is probably worth it. And it's likely you will chop gold at some point btw. In fact sometimes you're pinned in base and can't go to the next hunt so rather than having 20 idle vills you put all of them on gold and send a temple card.
5. It's not better than the BB. Not only pikes are more expensive (and you need to shuffle vills across resources with is less efficient to begin with) but also they can't go stealth later on. JPKs are useless for the most part in the fortress age so I usually just use them as spies. Also JPKs help even vs HI pressure while pikes don't.
6. Coyote combat is because of this strat. If the plan is to abuse the WC+ERK, for example, I'd send the WC discovery card. Also let's be honest you didn't even use to send 600w until you saw it from someone
7. Ok
8. Arguable but I do also like 5 eagles just because that way I can skip the noble hut for the most part. 8v is neglectable I agree. 1k wood is usually equivalent as you make a 2nd TC and pump out vills with fertility dance. However 8v is the closest thing you have to a food boost which often you need as Aztecs. Even when you're out of hunts 8v directly on wood speed up the farm transitioning. I'd also consider 3 farms instead. When you have steady-infinite food income it's very easy to get as many vills as you want with the fertility dance.

1. You won't be housed. I've done this build hundred of times and never had this issue. Also your 700w shipment comes at 5min so you totally have time to build a house (and a warhut) against a rush.
2. You don't only dance with 1wp, you dance with 1wp and 10vills so it's not less efficient. And having an extra wp sooner is a big deal.
3. You can totally do wp/house and not get housed.
4.You need to gather like 1000g for it to be worth and you won't do that often. And even then, with the snowball effect it would be better to save that wood+the house to build a TP althought it's an overkill.
5. Jaguars do not help against HI pressure, they get sniped. Furthermore, nobody will do a HI pressure. Pikes are better because they're faster and they can catch the cav raids.

1. You do have that issue, especially if switching to warriors at like 6-7 WPs or having to send maces when you're harassed with 700w on the floor.
2. It is still less efficient, I have noticed it lately. It's 32 seconds for the 5th WP vs 20 seconds. You start about 20-30 seconds earlier but it's barely worth it. If you don't chop for 2 houses I guess you can't start full 40 seconds earlier (not quite if you have to chop 100w entirely) but it doesn't matter because at 30 pop you get housed (20v+10wp) before 700w arrives.
3. You can't, unless it's a 300w start. And even when you can it's going to be too tight to be reliable. If you get raided by 5 or 4 kanya or even just sepoy pressure or w/e you can't dance for warriors without getting housed, even if only temporarily. Blocking villager/WP/shipment production is just as inefficient as chopping for an extra house. Which is not even inefficient since you will need that house later on anyway. And it's better to get it when you have vills already on wood rather than shuffling across resources multiple times.
4. Placer mines it's worth it if you are making ERK. As simple as that. Also if you chop 400g (age up) + 400g (temple card) then it's probably already worth it. And again your vills will be out of hunts sometimes so you want them on gold.
5. Jags don't get sniped because you pop them on top of HI or even go stealth. In any case no player has perfect micro and even in that case JPK still tank shots. I "Nobody will do a HI pressure" ye just like all the dudes who try to musk semi vs it. Pikes 1) need a wh (which is up at 6 min so no help at the beginning), 2) they still don't catch raids if opponent is looking, 3) they cost more and are even more useless in age3. In the end it's a not a huge difference but when you need units to defend it is usually before the WH is up so you need the jags.

[Shikari]

@Garja
Oh Lord garja we need a updated Spain guide as well.

[Zeke]

Forgot to mention but I guess it's trivial whoever use this in tourney will have a big edge since Aztecs have been overbuffed.

Feel like forjustice always does so xD

[Zeke]

What about the fencing school card? Feel that it's somehow better for wp boom, especially when u need to retrain them after defending an age 2 pressure. It also buffs the training time of mace, tho it's a less important point

[[Armag] diarouga]

What about the fencing school card? Feel that it's somehow better for wp boom, especially when u need to retrain them after defending an age 2 pressure. It also buffs the training time of mace, tho it's a less important point

It's like 30 second slower, and in practice it's not worth more than a 2nd wh so it's not good.

@Garja Maybe your execution is wrong but I never got housed (and I did this build hundred of times), and I get my pike batch around 6min.

[Aizamk]

As big warchief expert I would say that fencing school is better the later you do the comparison. That was the rationale I had for my build vs rouga’s predictable WP boom in that Aztec mirror. Make a few units to stall the WP boom, force a switch to warriors to take up pop space and reduce WP boom payoff, then use fencing school to make up for lost time as it gets comparatively more efficient the more you have on the fire pit.

Never worked out the maths for it but having initiative gives a lot of intangible benefits anyway which is much preferable to staying in base.

[deleted_user]

Would you say you feel most at home in control of the game, executing a style that grants you many different continuations and options?

[[Armag] diarouga]

As big warchief expert I would say that fencing school is better the later you do the comparison. That was the rationale I had for my build vs rouga’s predictable WP boom in that Aztec mirror. Make a few units to stall the WP boom, force a switch to warriors to take up pop space and reduce WP boom payoff, then use fencing school to make up for lost time as it gets comparatively more efficient the more you have on the fire pit.

Never worked out the maths for it but having initiative gives a lot of intangible benefits anyway which is much preferable to staying in base.

I didn't do the wp boom in that Aztec mirror, and got ahead before I threw the game regardless.

[Scroogie]

This kinf of build can realy hold some age3 push?? Age at 9.30-10 looks pretty late vs ff civ.

Check out my games from the rec pack vs Spain and Otto. If you mean generic fortress civ, then even more so. Aging up with the War Chief grants the special attack and with that you can kill the falcs. And to be fair it's not even necessary with all the other stuff you get.[/quote]

Where do i find these recs? @Garja

[Zeke]

Would you say you feel most at home in control of the game, executing a style that grants you many different continuations and options?

u mean Chinese FF? xD

[Garja]

This kinf of build can realy hold some age3 push?? Age at 9.30-10 looks pretty late vs ff civ.

Check out my games from the rec pack vs Spain and Otto. If you mean generic fortress civ, then even more so. Aging up with the War Chief grants the special attack and with that you can kill the falcs. And to be fair it's not even necessary with all the other stuff you get.

Where do i find these recs? @Garja

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=18881&p=410156&hil ... cs#p410156

[[Armag] diarouga]

This kinf of build can realy hold some age3 push?? Age at 9.30-10 looks pretty late vs ff civ.

Check out my games from the rec pack vs Spain and Otto. If you mean generic fortress civ, then even more so. Aging up with the War Chief grants the special attack and with that you can kill the falcs. And to be fair it's not even necessary with all the other stuff you get.

Where do i find these recs? @Garja[/quote]
I'm interested as well.

[toriancarconn]

@Garja, this is insightful. Thank you for posting it.
Since I'm only playing the RE version, can you point me to any earlier, RE related Aztec posts of yours?