US riots

[007Salt]

Not sure if this topic is discussed anywhere else but this seems to be pretty damn extreme even for American standards. This is a case where I can't even blame the rioters and protesters because all the evidence shows that a white officer straight up murdered a black man. I'm sure you all know about it by now but this is at least a place where it can be discussed since It's a real life event.

This video is what happened



This video is the result of that officers actions

[fightinfrenchman]

Not sure if this topic is discussed anywhere else but this seems to be pretty damn extreme even for American standards.

The sad thing is, it isn't.

[007Salt]

Not sure if this topic is discussed anywhere else but this seems to be pretty damn extreme even for American standards.

The sad thing is, it isn't.

I guess so but this isn't a good thing if that's the consensus. This is why we're seeing such an extreme reaction.

[princeofcarthage]

The sad and probably funny thing is the officer was suspended, not charged with murder. Like which rule allows you to place your knee on someone's neck?

[blackout]

The most ridiculous thing besides of the obvious which I heard so far regarding this whole situation was that the police guy is just a black sheep and that most policemen are good people.
I mean yea maybe but jumping straight to the relativations is really unbelievable

[Goodspeed]

Yeah it triggers me when people's first reaction to this is saying "but most policemen are good". Sadly that seems to be a common response. Their first instinct is to defend the status quo, probably because it's serving them just fine.

[Mr_Bramboy]

Good thing we fixed racism by looting the electronics stores and the police stations.

[RefluxSemantic]

Yeah it triggers me when people's first reaction to this is saying "but most policemen are good". Sadly that seems to be a common response. Their first instinct is to defend the status quo, probably because it's serving them just fine.

Stating that most policemen are good isnt defending the status quo at all though

[gamevideo113]

What happened is honestly unbelievable. And i agree, the black sheep argument is a really lame excuse to cover up blatant evidence that the system is just really deeply flawed. Some jobs just can't have bad sheeps.
That video represents the failure of modern institutions, perhaps of society as a whole. From an iconical point if view I think it has to be one of the most powerful videos you can possisbly find on the internet.
I remember a few years ago a similar thing happened, an unarmed, cooperative guy was shot by police in cold blood and it went all on tape. Insanity.
Edit: reference
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shootin ... iel_Shaver

[Goodspeed]

Yeah it triggers me when people's first reaction to this is saying "but most policemen are good". Sadly that seems to be a common response. Their first instinct is to defend the status quo, probably because it's serving them just fine.

Stating that most policemen are good isnt defending the status quo at all though

Not out of context, but if it's your first response to an event like this, I would argue it is. Whether you mean to imply it or not, people are justifiably going to interpret it as you saying there isn't really a problem.

[blackout]

Another point for me is how insanely cold the policeman is. He is barely looking at the man while he is killing him. How can u be a person like that is completely beyond me

[fightinfrenchman]

Another point for me is how insanely cold the policeman is. He is barely looking at the man while he is killing him. How can u be a person like that is completely beyond me

It's because he doesn't view the man he's killing as a person

[RefluxSemantic]

Yeah it triggers me when people's first reaction to this is saying "but most policemen are good". Sadly that seems to be a common response. Their first instinct is to defend the status quo, probably because it's serving them just fine.

Stating that most policemen are good isnt defending the status quo at all though

Not out of context, but if it's your first response to an event like this, I would argue it is. Whether you mean to imply it or not, people are justifiably going to interpret it as you saying there isn't really a problem.

I don't agree with this. I think the opposite is what's happening. People see this sort of event, and use it for their narrative that the USA has a racism problem. The truth is that these police officers are rare. Not as rare as they should be, but they are rare. Most cops are good. This is actually a pretty essential aspect of this entire situation. This is blatant murder. That's not a racism problem anymore, at this point the police force is employing someone who will murder another person in cold blood. That's also not going to be a common thing amongst police officers at all.

[SoldieR]

I think the situation cannot be correctly judged until you see what happened leading up to the man being on the ground. I don't know if there is video of that, but I think that is a very important part of the discussion.

[fightinfrenchman]

I think the situation cannot be correctly judged until you see what happened leading up to the man being on the ground. I don't know if there is video of that, but I think that is a very important part of the discussion.

It actually isn't important at all

[n0el]

I think the situation cannot be correctly judged until you see what happened leading up to the man being on the ground. I don't know if there is video of that, but I think that is a very important part of the discussion.

It actually isn't important at all

i agree

[SoldieR]

How? There could very well be a reason they had to take him to the ground. They way he was kept to the ground is another discussion. Depending on what was happening that requires the person to be taken to the ground can also determine what you have to do to keep him to the ground.

[fightinfrenchman]

How? There could very well be a reason they had to take him to the ground. They way he was kept to the ground is another discussion.

The way he was "kept to the ground" was the way he was murdered after saying he couldn't breathe.

[duckzilla]

I don't agree with this. I think the opposite is what's happening. People see this sort of event, and use it for their narrative that the USA has a racism problem. The truth is that these police officers are rare. Not as rare as they should be, but they are rare. Most cops are good. This is actually a pretty essential aspect of this entire situation. This is blatant murder. That's not a racism problem anymore, at this point the police force is employing someone who will murder another person in cold blood. That's also not going to be a common thing amongst police officers at all.

Well, this is surely true. But how does it help? If you know, you have a 0.1% chance of having a racist police officer in front of you, how does it change your behavior? And why should you even need to accept that 0.1% probability? Why does anyone need to accept racism by the hands of a governmental institution?
The government is responsible for the training of police officers and the sorting out of "black sheep". If it fails to do so, which it obviously does too often in the US, then, yes, the US has a problem with institutional racism.

The problem is aggravated by the point that cops killing unarmed black people are acquitted very often. The failure to bring these cops properly to justice, be it due the leniency during investigations or by jurisdiction, is extremely harmful for society. In the end, the legal standards for police officers should be higher than for common citizens, precisely because they represent the rule of law.

[SoldieR]

How? There could very well be a reason they had to take him to the ground. They way he was kept to the ground is another discussion.

The way he was "kept to the ground" was the way he was murdered after saying he couldn't breathe.

And this is exactly why it is important as to what happened prior.

For example; if he was charging at him with a knife, it is reasonable to take him down, keep him down with extreme force, and not believe him when he says he cant breathe while speaking.

Haven't you ever been in a fight and someone says they can't breathe and the second you let up the tables turn?

In contrast, if there was little to no confrontation leading up to this, then there could be no reason at all the even have him on the ground.

I'm not suggesting anything, just saying it is important what led to the situation, when looking at the result of the situation.

[RefluxSemantic]

I don't agree with this. I think the opposite is what's happening. People see this sort of event, and use it for their narrative that the USA has a racism problem. The truth is that these police officers are rare. Not as rare as they should be, but they are rare. Most cops are good. This is actually a pretty essential aspect of this entire situation. This is blatant murder. That's not a racism problem anymore, at this point the police force is employing someone who will murder another person in cold blood. That's also not going to be a common thing amongst police officers at all.

Well, this is surely true. But how does it help? If you know, you have a 0.1% chance of having a racist police officer in front of you, how does it change your behavior? And why should you even need to accept that 0.1% probability? Why does anyone need to accept racism by the hands of a governmental institution?
The government is responsible for the training of police officers and the sorting out of "black sheep". If it fails to do so, which it obviously does too often in the US, then, yes, the US has a problem with institutional racism.

The problem is aggravated by the point that cops killing unarmed black people are acquitted very often. The failure to bring these cops properly to justice, be it due the leniency during investigations or by jurisdiction, is extremely harmful for society. In the end, the legal standards for police officers should be higher than for common citizens, precisely because they represent the rule of law.

It helps because of the things you follow it up with. This is not a problem that affects all police officers. Once you acknowledge that, you can reach more helpful conclusions like you are doing. I think it might be a combination of bad police officer training in general (US police seems way to aggressive in general), the constant fear of people being armed (due to easy access to guns), the failure of the police academy to filter out those that are unsuited (like with this police officer I feel like some psychological test should've filtered him out), the failure to punish police brutality and potential racism in a police department. But reaching those conclusions begins by acknowledging that this is a rare case of a complete psychopath police officer.

[RefluxSemantic]

How? There could very well be a reason they had to take him to the ground. They way he was kept to the ground is another discussion.

The way he was "kept to the ground" was the way he was murdered after saying he couldn't breathe.

And this is exactly why it is important as to what happened prior.

For example; if he was charging at him with a knife, it is reasonable to take him down, keep him down with extreme force, and not believe him when he says he cant breathe while speaking.

Haven't you ever been in a fight and someone says they can't breathe and the second you let up the tables turn?

I'm not suggesting anything, just saying it is important what led to the situation, when looking at the result of the situation.

Except for the part where putting a knee in someone's neck for a prolonged period of time is never reasonable. This shouldn't be part of any police training and probably isn't, there are many ways to restrain a person that don't have a very real chance of outright killing that person. Either this police officer received no training at all, or he just ignored all his training in an attempt to murder this individual.

[fightinfrenchman]

For example; if he was charging at him with a knife, it is reasonable to take him down, keep him down with extreme force, and not believe him when he says he cant breathe while speaking.

That would not be reasonable.

Haven't you ever been in a fight and someone says they can't breathe and the second you let up the tables turn?

I've never been in a fight where I have the ability to kill the other person without consequence

[SoldieR]

Not sure this is the case here, but many police officers are very young people that are doing it for the money. Chicago in particular are always looking for new policemen and the amount of education and training required is not very extensive.

[fightinfrenchman]

I don't have any training to be a police officer but I don't have the desire to kill unarmed black people so I'm not sure a lack of training is the key issue here