India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Germany amiggo1999
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India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

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[EP8-2 SP] India_Bot1999[IR] vs Lukas_L99[SI] - ESOC Baja California.age3yrec
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ESOC Baja California
ESOC Baja California
Rules: Supremacy (1v1)
Version: ESOC Patch 8.2
Length: 12 minutes
[EP8-2 SP] Lukas_L99[CH] vs India_Bot1999[FR] - ESOC Kamchatka.age3yrec
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ESOC Kamchatka
ESOC Kamchatka
Rules: Supremacy (1v1)
Version: ESOC Patch 8.2
Length: 16 minutes
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by GiBthedurrty »

yo
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Told you miggo was underrated.
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by chronique »

Someone can explain fr bo vs china? cause when i saw it i just thinking "looks bad, no eco and no timing before china aging".
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by Lukas_L99 »

I guess I just shouldve aged with skirms, but other than that idk what I did wrong.
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by deleted_user »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Told you miggo was underrated.
Who were you telling?
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

deleted_user wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Told you miggo was underrated.
Who were you telling?
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by n0el »

China OP!
mad cuz bad
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

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Post by Mitoe »

Lukas_L99 wrote:I guess I just shouldve aged with skirms, but other than that idk what I did wrong.
Looking back at the game now, I think 5 meteors was not optimal in that situation either. 10 skirms would've been better to allow you to kite more or defend from behind your buildings and buy time until another shipment is available. But yeah, definitely not aging with skirms was the more important factor.

Also feels like people are confused about what Lukas did wrong, but are not really talking about what Miggo did right. He was doing a very aggressive build order, and even though it wasn't inside Lukas's base before he placed his wonder, he didn't compromise on his game plan. A lot of people would have shipped 4 cdb after the 8 crossbow here, and then just have a weaker army as a result. Miggo doubled down on his military investment by shipping 3 hussars and 600w, knowing that a fight was coming and he needed the immediate value to increase his chances of winning the fight rather than the slower 4 cdb. Once he's ahead that's when he finally sends it as his 6th Colonial shipment.
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Mitoe wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:I guess I just shouldve aged with skirms, but other than that idk what I did wrong.
Looking back at the game now, I think 5 meteors was not optimal in that situation either. 10 skirms would've been better to allow you to kite more or defend from behind your buildings and buy time until another shipment is available. But yeah, definitely not aging with skirms was the more important factor.
Not sure, he had like 15 huss or something haha. But yeah I guess I couldve just stayed between my buildings. Sucks to suck I guess.
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by chronique »

The things is, i usualy go gor age 2 play against china as spain, and i am more big timing oriented (i hit the timing arround 6.30, before the china age). I have already try what miggo did (with spain but i think its quite similar in that situation) with not so much success. Maybe because china always go for 8 skirm against spain, but maybe i can re-try some stuff like that, with my current level, that's why i like what miggo did :P .
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

People always age with the skirms against Spain, so I wouldn't try it.

I haven't watched the game but I know that even with the skirm age up, China can take a lot of damage against a musk/huss build, it's really not an easy match up.
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by Garja »

Just age with skirm and you're fine. By default I learnt to age with skirms if opponent fb, if opponent doesn't then I age with tower (though for max safety can age with skirms if oppo is playing colonial).
Can probably hold even without skirms but need very good defensive skills and maybe a bit of luck in terms of good age1, some pets, etc.
By no mean China (or any FF actually) should lose to a musk/huss rush/timing, unless it's something extremely tailored like rush --> kill village --> perfect timing with enough units. I think only otto and India can do that. I used to have a build for that Jap too but I dont think it works vs good China.
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by sebnan12 »

i remember a game playing va diarouga on gp fre vs china it was on the re patch. he went for a musk huss rush and had 5 musk 4 huss at my base when i recieved coin crates. to this day im still sure that a good musk huss rush beats china.
his follow up was so tight and well macro'd i was chanceless when hitting age 3
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

I think I got good treasures and managed to age with 13v in this game, but ye, if you ff then it's hopeless for China as you'll get iddled forever and reach the fortress age after France.
I agree to say that the people who say that France vs China is a bad MU for France don't play the MU the right way.
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by Astaroth »

[Armag] diarouga wrote: I agree to say that the people who say that France vs China is a bad MU for France don't play the MU the right way.
That's usually what happens when someone goes cav semi as France, trains 5+ huss, kills zero vills, makes skirm/goon and pushes early with skirm/goon/2 falc (!) and wonders why he loses vs a China deathball.

Seen that plenty of times.
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Ye, not many top players do that nowadays (though rapha did it against Lukas in the NWC qualifiers iirc), but that's indeed awful.
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by SoldieR »

sebnan12 wrote:i remember a game playing va diarouga on gp fre vs china it was on the re patch. he went for a musk huss rush and had 5 musk 4 huss at my base when i recieved coin crates. to this day im still sure that a good musk huss rush beats china.
his follow up was so tight and well macro'd i was chanceless when hitting age 3
If there are 5musk and 4 huss in your base as coin crates hit the floor, then you aged super late. Coin crates should hit the floor no later than 5:40
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

SoldieR wrote:
sebnan12 wrote:i remember a game playing va diarouga on gp fre vs china it was on the re patch. he went for a musk huss rush and had 5 musk 4 huss at my base when i recieved coin crates. to this day im still sure that a good musk huss rush beats china.
his follow up was so tight and well macro'd i was chanceless when hitting age 3
If there are 5musk and 4 huss in your base as coin crates hit the floor, then you aged super late. Coin crates should hit the floor no later than 5:40
And I was in his base with 5musk/4huss at like 5:30 in this game haha.
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by Garja »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:I think I got good treasures and managed to age with 13v in this game, but ye, if you ff then it's hopeless for China as you'll get iddled forever and reach the fortress age after France.
I agree to say that the people who say that France vs China is a bad MU for France don't play the MU the right way.
So much bullshit lol. If you build your stuff close with China you just defendi with naked FF. Then it's probably wise to age with skirms if the opponent fbed as the plan is to push out rather soon.
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:I think I got good treasures and managed to age with 13v in this game, but ye, if you ff then it's hopeless for China as you'll get iddled forever and reach the fortress age after France.
I agree to say that the people who say that France vs China is a bad MU for France don't play the MU the right way.
So much bullshit lol. If you build your stuff close with China you just defendi with naked FF. Then it's probably wise to age with skirms if the opponent fbed as the plan is to push out rather soon.
I remember a smackdown game where I won quite hard with a musk/huss against you playing China and I didn't get a great age 1. With 5musk/4huss in your base at 5:30, there's not much you can do as China if you're going straight ff.
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by Garja »

Yes and I failed that, plus I didnt age with skirms. With good defense China FF can hold even harder stuff than musk/huss. Musk/huss is generally bad vs any FF because the TC gets max value vs musketeers and huss also cost too much for what they accomplish.
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by Astaroth »

I'd like to see this. Sadly, many top matches are quite greedy and defensive, heavy age2 pressure is rare in most MUs.

That may be because it sucks, but it could also just have fallen out of fashion.
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by Kaiserklein »

France musk/huss fb very simply doesn't beat China. It literally loses to everything. Bow/pike semi that may even take the fb down, bot FF, 9 pikes + skirms age up, etc. Assuming China has a TP or 2 villages in age 1 ofc.
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Re: India_Bot1999 vs Lukas_L99

Post by SoldieR »

Yes, okay, that's what I thought as well.

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