America "Wild West" Opening

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United States of America GKShaman
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America "Wild West" Opening

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Post by GKShaman »

Howdy!

This has been my USA start with Outlaws:

Deck:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachment ... height=588

Basic Idea: Strong Gold start with capitalism, bank, and meeting house trickle. Some more techs, cree techs, and shipments lets us have a strong military. Strong enough eco and later Irish immigrants come in to seal the deal. Should win in age 2 or pivot in age 3 to gatlings. 5 cowboys 1 shot a huss so even though first units at 6:15 you can handle raids. As for rushes - u have a tower, MM, Freedom, mercs, and vills. Fight for some liberty!!!

Basic Build Order:
TP start and chop for a house.
Ship Capitalism (I mean if you dont ship capitalism first are you even playing America??)
Ship Advanced Saloon (Allows u to build 3 Saloons and they cover 25 pop each)
After 800F PENNSLYVANIA (3:30) collect Gold with all vills and Ship Bank Card)
After 350 G all to Wood and collect 225W for (Market + Hunting Dogs + Placer Mines)
All vills to Gold with 5 on Food for vill production.
Ship 3 TPs and call MM (to secure wagons and walk wagons to forward spot with flag and tower). Que Cowboys (Should have 9 at least with most vills on gold and capitalism).
Ship Meeting House (Gold Trickle and steady XP and later the military techs for 575 F for sharp shooters and 800 F for Carbines)
Ship Dance Hall for pop of mercs - buy 100 w for a house where needed. Raid with cowboys. Make owlhoots if encountering heavy musk. I make gunslingers if I need muskets.
Ship Cree Travois (cree leatherworking is a 5% upgrade, CDBs, and trackers!) OR Irish Immigrants at 9:20 to receive 6 vills and put them to gold.
Get market techs as you can; Arsenal Wagon is good after some fighting. Cree tech, flag, and arsenal really makes u win most age 2 fights.
Age to 3 for more upgrades; get the pennslyvania techs when possible.

In transition to age 3 - If you ship Washington Lumber Mills and get Log Flume at Market - you can EASILY chop with all vills and get 2 TCs and some unit upgrades in age 3.

NOTE: Only weakness is skirms to this whole plan - you can throw cowboys into melee but its best to call Uhlans in age 3 or just make hussar in age 2 to counter the ranged infantry.

Age to 3 with state that gives Factory Wagon OR gives Owl Hoot range. Up to you. I prefer Owl Hoot range.

You can do Chinese Immigrants to Incorporate Natives but MM is super good.

If opponent ages just shift 10 vills to food and stop making mercs for a minute and u should have 1200F and 1000G to follow him up. (Capitalism + Bank + Pennslyvania Pound (2.5G/s) is more than TWO upgraded Banks (6.9 G/s) so in 1 min it accumulates 400G. so macro most vills onto Food and 4 on gold to age up when you want.
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Germany Kartoffel Joe
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Re: America "Wild West" Opening

Post by Kartoffel Joe »

GKShaman wrote:Howdy!

This has been my USA start with Outlaws:

Deck:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachment ... height=181

Basic Idea: Strong Gold start with capitalism, bank, and meeting house trickle. Some more techs, native techs, and merc shipments lets us have a strong military. Strong enough eco and later Irish immigrants come in to seal the deal. Should win in age 2 or pivot in age 3 to gatlings. 5 cowboys 1 shot a huss so even though first units at 6:15 you can handle raids. As for rushes - u have a tower, MM, Freedom, mercs, and vills. Fight for some liberty!!!

Basic Build Order:
TP start and chop for a house.
Ship Capitalism (I mean if you dont ship capitalism first are you even playing America??)
Ship Advanced Saloon (Allows u to build 3 Saloons and they cover 25 pop each)
After 800F PENNSLYVANIA (3:30) collect only Gold and Ship Bank Card
After 350 G (leave 2 on gold) chop 400 W for (Saloon upon aging; 2 houses)
All vills to Gold.
Make 5 Cowboys by 6:15.
Ship Meeting House (Gold Trickle and steady XP and later the military techs for 575 F for sharp shooters and 800 F for Carbines)
Ship 700W (Market; Double Saloons; 2nd TP)
Ship Cree Travois (cree leatherworking is a 5% upgrade, CDBs, and trackers!)
Get market techs as you can; Arsenal Wagon is good after some fighting. Cree tech and arsenal really makes u win most age 2 fights.

Age to 3 with state that gives Factory Wagon OR gives Owl Hoot range. Up to you. I prefer Owl Hoot range.

I have considered tying in natives with 400 W shipment and spamming natives but the problem is the lack of native cards other than treaties and age 4 card.

If opponent ages just shift 10 vills to food and stop making mercs for a minute and u should have 1200F and 1000G to follow him up.

Thoughts?
I would go 3 cdb first, u get bank and trickle from church card so capitalism first card doesnt make sense to me
United States of America GKShaman
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Re: America "Wild West" Opening

Post by GKShaman »

Finding space for Advanced Saloon as a age 1 shipment is tough considering Bank Wagon is pretty key for this and Irish vills or French CDB is as well as a first card.

Thus I went TP first (200w) and sent Capitalism (which gets the bank easier). But there may be an option to do:

3cdb >> Bank Wagon >>TP in Transition >> Advanced Saloon >> 700w/MeetingHouse

or I just chop out 3 houses.
France Kaiserklein
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Re: America "Wild West" Opening

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Post by Kaiserklein »

GKShaman wrote:Ship Capitalism (I mean if you dont ship capitalism first are you even playing America??)
I get that's a joke, but still. Just ship 3 cdbs
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
United States of America GKShaman
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Re: America "Wild West" Opening

Post by GKShaman »

Kaiserklein wrote:
GKShaman wrote:Ship Capitalism (I mean if you dont ship capitalism first are you even playing America??)
I get that's a joke, but still. Just ship 3 cdbs
This civ doesnt seem to have a viable 2nd or 3rd FIRST card for America so I agree.

Do you think theres space for Advanced Saloon in there? Three age 1 cards is rough thus the TP.
France Kaiserklein
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Re: America "Wild West" Opening

Post by Kaiserklein »

I don't think shipping a third age 1 card is any good, even with a TP
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
United States of America GKShaman
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Re: America "Wild West" Opening

Post by GKShaman »

This was a ranked game I just played with a Japan that boomed. Some early sloppiness but its fun to watch for sure.

Build: Capitalism >> Adv Saloon >> Bank Wagon >> Meeting House >> Cree Travois >> 700 W

America vs Japan
United States of America GKShaman
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Re: America "Wild West" Opening

Post by GKShaman »

Updated the original build. Posting a recent recorded game. Capitalism was buffed to 1.65G/s so its worth easily 2-3 vills on gold and thus more viable as a CDB replacement.
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Slovenia Javon
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Re: America "Wild West" Opening

Post by Javon »

I tried this build out today in skirmish, need to check it still in ranked. Seems strong, especially because it's easy to macro allowing you to raid or fight, just keep mining coin and making villagers. Also I recommend sending Dance Hall before Penn Meeting House, as coin production allows to make more outlaws but you quickly become limited by pop space, which is distracting. If you keep overgathering coin (pop space limit and you want age 2 play, so you don't macro for age up) you can get the Beverages upgrade in Saloon. The viability of the build also depends on having a map with lots of coin mines (Florida seems good). Would love to see @Aizamk try it though, he's more versed in USA.
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Re: America "Wild West" Opening

Post by Javon »

Not a particularly great performance from me, but I thought the outlaws did catch him by surprise. Also the game is quite long, lots of mistakes on my part, so don't pull your hair out if someone actually decides to watch this.
The push was hampered because I made the Saloons in base and not a FB. Also no TP makes the early game feel so sluggish, because you need to send so many cards before you can start doing anything. I went 3CDB, bank, 3 TP wagons, advanced saloon and then dance hall. Obviously 3 TP wagons after advanced saloon is stupid in no TP maps and clunky at best on TP maps, so might need to build first saloon with vills and then use the TP wagon for a church or something (market seems a waste at 100 wood cost).
I feel like coin income is good enough as it is, so no need for capitalism (hope Milton Friedman doesn't read this) or Penn pound and no reason to train Carbine Cavalry or Sharpshooters if you are going for outlaws. Instead I went Virginia age up, because you still have the best cards for exit strategy from age II. After you age up to Fortress age, you shouldn't really train outlaws anymore I think.
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Germany AndiAOE
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Re: America "Wild West" Opening

Post by AndiAOE »

Build Order
I missed that BO-Thread. I had similar Ideas (see this thread for reference viewtopic.php?p=544868#p544868).

I think going with Chinese Immigrants as starting card gives you the strongest economy (enables later stagecoach). I am also a huge fan of hamilton economics. Also i think cowboys are just the best unit to make and there is almost no reason to ever switch away to other outlaws
Slovenia Javon
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Re: America "Wild West" Opening

Post by Javon »

Well Cowboys have almost no siege and obviously you should try to vary your army somewhat. And Gunslingers are possibly better than Regulars in age 2 (higher speed, recalculated cost is almost the same, higher attack, charged ability). They are worse against cavalry, have smaller range (but it's still same as all age II musks) and cost 2 pop after dance halls, but unit production macro is easier. Owlhoots do suck seeing as how you can make state militia which are probably better.
I watched your video, nice revolt :D. I see how Hamiltonian economics fit in with your build. I also saw that your cowboys had a 45 hp increase in age 3, where did that come from? I thought outlaws don't shadowtech.
United States of America Dolphincup
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Re: America "Wild West" Opening

Post by Dolphincup »

outlaws have a "vet" and "guard" upgrades in the saloon
Slovenia Javon
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Re: America "Wild West" Opening

Post by Javon »

Yeah he probably got that, just didn't see it in his video when he got the upgrade.

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