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United States of America n0el
ESOC Business Team
Posts: 6764
ESO: jezabob
Clan: 팀 하우스

17 Jul 2021, 14:56

Image

This past weekend we all saw the conclusion to one of the most dominant runs in the long history of Age3.

CAUTION Spoilers


Many thanks to everyone who made this event possible, especially EGCTV for co-hosting and funding half the prize pool. Thanks to @Aussie_Drongo , @I_HaRRiiSoN_I , @Lecastete , @fitzbro, @minimoult21 and others for all the streams that they led. Over the course of of the pro-division and the end of the amateur division, we managed to cast almost all of the games, a tremendous accomplishment. Special thanks to the team at Aoe2cm, who modified their software in order for us to use a draft for civilizations in the end of the event. If you’d like to use it for your own fun, head over to https://iii.aoe2cm.net/ and check it out.

Of course, tournaments like these wouldn’t be possible without the support of the community. In order to keep providing high level content going forward, we need your help. We at ESOC are looking to add our team. Specifically we are looking for those interested in helping to run or cover tournaments for Age 3 and Age 4. If you are interested, please send me a PM or contact me on discord. We also rely on your generosity to fund the events that we run. I’d you’d like to donate or subscribe on Twitch, that would greatly help us in order to host future events like EPL3.

Other than those events, what else does ESOC have in store? Well, with the release date and upcoming beta for Age of Empires 4, it is past due time that we opened a forum specifically aimed at that game. More and more information will continue to be released, and no doubt there will be great discussion to be had. Head over there and check out the existing topics. There will be a closed beta soonTM, so stay tuned for more information about the launch of the beta and head over and become an Age Insider on ageofempires.com if you are interested in participating.
mad cuz bad
France iNcog
Ninja
Posts: 12183

17 Jul 2021, 15:25

Interesting post right after Haitch's stream.

AOE4 is exciting but I'm still very happy with AOE3 in general. There's some flaws for sure with balance and other stuff but I don't see the game suffering the way people have been saying that it's just going to be doomed. It's like SC2 all over again in 2010 except this time there is a developer behind it. Of course, the devs are going to not get the balance right the first time around. I think that is the norm. I'd like to be excited at the next expansion.
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Germany blackout
Dragoon
Posts: 302

17 Jul 2021, 15:51

iNcog wrote:Interesting post right after Haitch's stream.

Why? What happened?
France iNcog
Ninja
Posts: 12183

17 Jul 2021, 16:37

blackout wrote:
iNcog wrote:Interesting post right after Haitch's stream.

Why? What happened?

Haitch basically semi-quit AOE3 for the time being, though I'm not sure what was specifically said and I don't want to make baseless conjectures or anything.

Right now, if I were to take stock of AOE3 DE, this is how I would see it:

cons:
- "stale" meta with some build orders and some civs just being OP/broken
- "stale" professional scene with very few active super-top players left compared to before, partially due to the above point
- DE still has some teething bugs and perhaps civilization design that doesn't appeal to all

Personally I don't exactly agree with the new civs having bad design. Autogathering houses are annoying, maybe, but I think it's more a question of balance than design here. I personally like the design of the new civs, though perhaps not the state of their balance.

Pros:
- Two MORE NEW CIVS on their way, which is great and it's giving Africa a much needed nod
- despite teething issues, the game still has active developer support from FE and Microsoft; I think we're taking this for granted instead of being grateful for it
- AOE4 right around the corner as well, increasing hype for AOE overall. and again, I think the more AOE itself does well, the better overall. I don't believe in looking at AOE2's success and pining that AOE3 isn't as big
- Active updates for the game, shaking up the meta in some ways which I think is healthy.
- $5000 tournament anyone? lol?
- Strong content creators like Fitzbro and Aussie_Drongo who are doing a really good job at helping cement the community together.

Again, there is no way to add 5 new civilizations to AOE3 and expect balance to be decent. The logisticians politicians are great for AOE3 but ofc they need to be tweaked in a way that they are balanced. That's fine.

I truthfully believe AOE3 is in an okay-good state. It's not a great state maybe, but that's fine because there is still INTEREST in it, from both the studio-side of things and the community side. So perhaps we should be a little more happy than unhappy. That's my take on it.
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Germany blackout
Dragoon
Posts: 302

17 Jul 2021, 16:44

ah alright well its saturday evening in summer and over 4000 people playing. not too bad at all.
feels abit like the top top players are getting tired of the game and celebrating the fact that they apparently dont enjoy it anymore a bit too much anyways imo. in the end it doesnt matter to me as long as there are enough people playing and im pretty sure that wont change with the new civs which they gona add
Italy MaxMagous
Crossbow
Posts: 15
ESO: MaxMagous

18 Jul 2021, 10:36

Thanks to the people above who dared to make somewhat positive comments on the game and its state, for a change. The tourney has been amazing, and so have been the table topper series before that, and pretty much all content that we've gotten from esoc/egctv throughout the course of these months.
This community has seemingly recently undertaken the arduous task of tearing itself apart from the inside, and sadly it is all coming from the very people who have mostly contributed to make the game and its competitive scene compelling in the first place. For as much as I respect these people, I do think that the hate-speech towards the game and the developers has gone way too far and it's now kind of out of control to the extent that it has become "meta" to play the game to gather more insights on why to hate it rather than to play the game to enjoy it.
Talking facts, yes the game does have a few technical issues, balance wise there's a couple things that are a little "too good" (inf 6 mams, peru revolt) and...that's pretty much it. The game is otherwise in the best state it has ever been, and more people would share this niche opinion had it not been for the constant effort of pushing it down from above. All of what has been spread against the game (and has persuaded many more to share and spread in turn) comes from a tiny little portion of the player base - the "pro players" - who many times have overstated their very own and personal feelings based on their own experience of the game in matchups that happen on the very top of the ladder, and somehow turned them into dogmatic truths.
Since before DE, the game needed to move forward to not die, and it did in the best possible way. We're getting new content and consistent support in 2021 for a game that was released in 2005 and had rightfully been deemed to die many years ago. Let's all respect who decided to quit, and not make that a reason to quit ourselves a game that we've loved for so long and we probably still love more than what we've been enticed to believe.
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Greece LazarosVas
Musketeer
Posts: 62
Clan: GMDS

18 Jul 2021, 12:53

MaxMagous wrote:Thanks to the people above who dared to make somewhat positive comments on the game and its state, for a change. The tourney has been amazing, and so have been the table topper series before that, and pretty much all content that we've gotten from esoc/egctv throughout the course of these months.
This community has seemingly recently undertaken the arduous task of tearing itself apart from the inside, and sadly it is all coming from the very people who have mostly contributed to make the game and its competitive scene compelling in the first place. For as much as I respect these people, I do think that the hate-speech towards the game and the developers has gone way too far and it's now kind of out of control to the extent that it has become "meta" to play the game to gather more insights on why to hate it rather than to play the game to enjoy it.
Talking facts, yes the game does have a few technical issues, balance wise there's a couple things that are a little "too good" (inf 6 mams, peru revolt) and...that's pretty much it. The game is otherwise in the best state it has ever been, and more people would share this niche opinion had it not been for the constant effort of pushing it down from above. All of what has been spread against the game (and has persuaded many more to share and spread in turn) comes from a tiny little portion of the player base - the "pro players" - who many times have overstated their very own and personal feelings based on their own experience of the game in matchups that happen on the very top of the ladder, and somehow turned them into dogmatic truths.
Since before DE, the game needed to move forward to not die, and it did in the best possible way. We're getting new content and consistent support in 2021 for a game that was released in 2005 and had rightfully been deemed to die many years ago. Let's all respect who decided to quit, and not make that a reason to quit ourselves a game that we've loved for so long and we probably still love more than what we've been enticed to believe.


THANK YOU
Great Britain Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 7804
ESO: PrinceofBabu

18 Jul 2021, 13:12

Im just gonna say my piece here because ive noticed the more casual players seem to have a similar opinion about the top players being too vocal and wanting to hate the game. What those people seem to misunderstand is that although the game appeals to the more casual community adding in easier to do and fun strats, it makes it less competitive and therefore less fun for the top players.

The constant drama within the community doesnt help alot either with peoples mood but the way the game has developed whether it be explorer bugs, obstruction radius’ hitboxes of buildings and ships; thats not even including the very poor civ balance and a lack of a skill ceiling required to pull off strategies that beat players of a much higher level.

I can guarantee most if not all top players play for ggs and with things like peru revolt with a unit that beats everything, or swe eco with svea lifeguard with or without inf mam, port sea starting the game 1min before anyone else, spain logi getting 2k free res in the first 7mins in the game, you name it, just doesnt make the game fun. Sure you can argue players dont have to be vocal about it but with the huge delay in patches and the constant new bug being released in every new patch, then the players begin to voice their frustrations.

I can assure you ive tried to like the game but when the current tournament feels more like a chore than playing for fun you begin to wonder why youre playing it. I wouldve loved to have streamed this game alot more and ive tried and tried but every stream id always seem to get units stuck in buildings or sweden’d at one point or another which just killed my motivation. Dont wanna put words in other top players mouths but i assume they feel a similar way.
Great Britain Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 7804
ESO: PrinceofBabu

18 Jul 2021, 13:16

I also wanna say a very big thank you to @Aussie_Drongo @EGCTV and @ESOCommunity for providing tournaments and doing their best to provide us the best entertainment as possible and willing to put so much time effort and money into it even if it seemed like top players were “ungrateful”
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Germany Kartoffel Joe
Skirmisher
Posts: 123
ESO: Kartoffel Joe

18 Jul 2021, 19:00

Hazza54321 wrote:Im just gonna say my piece here because ive noticed the more casual players seem to have a similar opinion about the top players being too vocal and wanting to hate the game. What those people seem to misunderstand is that although the game appeals to the more casual community adding in easier to do and fun strats, it makes it less competitive and therefore less fun for the top players.

The constant drama within the community doesnt help alot either with peoples mood but the way the game has developed whether it be explorer bugs, obstruction radius’ hitboxes of buildings and ships; thats not even including the very poor civ balance and a lack of a skill ceiling required to pull off strategies that beat players of a much higher level.

I can guarantee most if not all top players play for ggs and with things like peru revolt with a unit that beats everything, or swe eco with svea lifeguard with or without inf mam, port sea starting the game 1min before anyone else, spain logi getting 2k free res in the first 7mins in the game, you name it, just doesnt make the game fun. Sure you can argue players dont have to be vocal about it but with the huge delay in patches and the constant new bug being released in every new patch, then the players begin to voice their frustrations.

I can assure you ive tried to like the game but when the current tournament feels more like a chore than playing for fun you begin to wonder why youre playing it. I wouldve loved to have streamed this game alot more and ive tried and tried but every stream id always seem to get units stuck in buildings or sweden’d at one point or another which just killed my motivation. Dont wanna put words in other top players mouths but i assume they feel a similar way.

100 % agreed. even i just deinstalled the game cause its just not fun anymoore
Sweden Victor_swe
Lancer
Donator 01
Posts: 829

18 Jul 2021, 20:33

How bout ep turney next?
Dead hunts cant walk....

BrookG - "There is a G in everyone"
Congo Democratic Republic orukitan
Crossbow
Posts: 11
ESO: orukitan

18 Jul 2021, 22:15

what is fun for the top players?
i think esoc patch and DE meta is masterbation for top players

yeah, exactly, you guys really understand this game and made good balance
but every maps have same character and every players use normally deck theseday
you micro nerd guys robbed everyplayer's imagination.

now, aoe3 is not strategy game, falling low and no intelligence game
me and some friend try to resist this boring trend, we never give up
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No Flag fightinfrenchman
Ninja
Donator 04
Posts: 21288
Location: Pennsylvania

18 Jul 2021, 22:24

orukitan wrote:what is fun for the top players?
i think esoc patch and DE meta is masterbation for top players

yeah, exactly, you guys really understand this game and made good balance
but every maps have same character and every players use normally deck theseday
you micro nerd guys robbed everyplayer's imagination.

now, aoe3 is not strategy game, falling low and no intelligence game
me and some friend try to resist this boring trend, we never give up

Thank you for your service
Why did howlingwolfpaw kill my cat
Canada klonko
Skirmisher
Posts: 138
ESO: klonko
Location: Québec

19 Jul 2021, 00:34

orukitan wrote:what is fun for the top players?
i think esoc patch and DE meta is masterbation for top players

yeah, exactly, you guys really understand this game and made good balance
but every maps have same character and every players use normally deck theseday
you micro nerd guys robbed everyplayer's imagination.

now, aoe3 is not strategy game, falling low and no intelligence game
me and some friend try to resist this boring trend, we never give up


And then there is aimzak.
Spain NekoBerk
Lancer
Posts: 799
ESO: Nirket
Location: Barcelona

19 Jul 2021, 13:13

orukitan wrote:what is fun for the top players?
i think esoc patch and DE meta is masterbation for top players

yeah, exactly, you guys really understand this game and made good balance
but every maps have same character and every players use normally deck theseday
you micro nerd guys robbed everyplayer's imagination.

now, aoe3 is not strategy game, falling low and no intelligence game
me and some friend try to resist this boring trend, we never give up


It's not that you can do the same strategy every game as you think. A good strategy vs "x" build order is even more important these days than micro.

Also I think there's still potential to make new strategies with cards that are not currently used.
"That's why we sing for these kids who don't have a thing
Except for a dream and a fuckin' rap magazine " - Eminem

"And we hate po-po
Wanna kill us dead in the street fo sho' " - Kendrick Lamar
France speedflyer
Skirmisher
Posts: 164
ESO: speedflyer

20 Jul 2021, 13:08

orukitan wrote:what is fun for the top players?
i think esoc patch and DE meta is masterbation for top players

yeah, exactly, you guys really understand this game and made good balance
but every maps have same character and every players use normally deck theseday
you micro nerd guys robbed everyplayer's imagination.

now, aoe3 is not strategy game, falling low and no intelligence game
me and some friend try to resist this boring trend, we never give up


Don't worry , you'll be #1 soon or later... Maybe when you'll be the last one on this game tho...
I hope Zoi and his team of faithful minions can stop demonizing people
User avatar
Spain Snuden
Jaeger
Posts: 3933
ESO: Snuden
Location: Costa del Baphomet

21 Jul 2021, 17:31

How about a tourney, where the only unit allowed is pikemen.
[Sith] - Baphomet
Spain NekoBerk
Lancer
Posts: 799
ESO: Nirket
Location: Barcelona

22 Jul 2021, 13:12

Snuden wrote:How about a tourney, where the only unit allowed is pikemen.

Spain for the win
"That's why we sing for these kids who don't have a thing
Except for a dream and a fuckin' rap magazine " - Eminem

"And we hate po-po
Wanna kill us dead in the street fo sho' " - Kendrick Lamar
Turkey breeze
Jaeger
Donator 01
Posts: 2158

23 Jul 2021, 19:45

orukitan wrote:what is fun for the top players?
i think esoc patch and DE meta is masterbation for top players

yeah, exactly, you guys really understand this game and made good balance
but every maps have same character and every players use normally deck theseday
you micro nerd guys robbed everyplayer's imagination.

now, aoe3 is not strategy game, falling low and no intelligence game
me and some friend try to resist this boring trend, we never give up

Totally agree, and we see the consequences when the balance changes are fed from only one side.

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