User avatar
Finland somppukunkku
Jaeger
Donator 02
Posts: 2183

25 Mar 2019, 01:26

It's quite a big deal assuming a very late game. It's 10 vills non-pop. Not very significant in 1v1 though.
Image
Image
Image
Image
When I win, it's with homo, illegal and wrong strats.
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
ESOC Media Team
EWTNWC LAN Top 8Donator 03
Posts: 3784
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

25 Mar 2019, 01:26

somppukunkku wrote:It's quite a big deal assuming a very late game. It's 10 vills non-pop. Not very significant in 1v1 though.

That's still not quite how it works.
User avatar
Finland somppukunkku
Jaeger
Donator 02
Posts: 2183

25 Mar 2019, 01:30

that was quite a minor point anyway. the main point was that brits are max mediocre and there is no any proof that's they are not (not overplayed, no dominating player).

also, we should consider the typical Kaiser-bias.
Image
Image
Image
Image
When I win, it's with homo, illegal and wrong strats.
User avatar
France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
EWT - PlayoffNWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 6703
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

25 Mar 2019, 01:31

somppukunkku wrote:We don't really have any evidence brit being op at all. Even erik went 0-3 as them in monociv cup.
I would really like to see even solid winning streaks against fre/germ among equal players to consider them being near op. Just like otto, they can be quite good and slightly favoured in a high res map such as hudson bay or arkansas. However, in maps like tassili or arizona they are rather weak and probably worse than fre/germ. They are balanced.

Another thing is that brits don't even have eco theory which means they have 10% worse eco than ger/fre when it goes to super late game.

Erik obviously fucked up though, he should have won these games, at least the first and second ones iirc.
About ger/fr vs brits, well I've played these mus a lot as you can imagine. And I know how to play them. I still lose them a lot. Erik knows how to play these as brits, and I think he and I are quite close in skill, yet I usually lose these mus vs him.


somppukunkku wrote:that was quite a minor point anyway. the main point was that brits are max mediocre and there is no any proof that's they are not (not overplayed, no dominating player).

also, we should consider the typical Kaiser-bias.

They're played a lot lol, and both erik and diarouga kind of dominate with brits. Mitoe too to some extent.
What makes you think I'm biased here?
Micro tricks

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

Image
User avatar
Finland somppukunkku
Jaeger
Donator 02
Posts: 2183

25 Mar 2019, 01:33

Brit could be considered as Erik's main civ.
Secondly, in my opinion brits do RELATIVELY well vs fre/germ, especially on high-hunt map.
And there is nothing wrong with that. Same way Germs do RELATIVELY very well vs Russia.
Just too bad that those are your main civs pretty much. Still, zero reasons to nerf.
Image
Image
Image
Image
When I win, it's with homo, illegal and wrong strats.
User avatar
France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
EWT - PlayoffNWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 6703
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

25 Mar 2019, 01:41

Well you said: "I would really like to see even solid winning streaks against fre/germ among equal players to consider them being near op". Idk why you wanted to compare brits to ger/fr, but since you asked, I did.
Brits are maybe erik's main civ, but fr and ger are my main civs too.
Ger actually rapes russia, but I don't see your point. I'm not talking about a couple match ups, but about all match ups.
Micro tricks

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

Image
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
ESOC Media Team
EWTNWC LAN Top 8Donator 03
Posts: 3784
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

25 Mar 2019, 01:45

I would rather focus on buffing weaker civs at this point. I don't think Brit is particularly OP--definitely solid though.
User avatar
Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7083
ESO: Garja

25 Mar 2019, 02:25

Brits tend to play better vs euro civs/standard play and worse vs rush civs /unbalanced play.
User avatar
Finland somppukunkku
Jaeger
Donator 02
Posts: 2183

25 Mar 2019, 02:42

Probably because those are one of the most played MUs in this whole game ^^
Point was kinda was garja just said above.
Image
Image
Image
Image
When I win, it's with homo, illegal and wrong strats.
User avatar
France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
EWT - PlayoffNWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 6703
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

25 Mar 2019, 05:00

What's "unbalanced play"? And which civ can actually rush brits?
Micro tricks

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

Image
User avatar
France bwinner1
Lancer
Posts: 939
ESO: bwinner

25 Mar 2019, 06:59

I don't remember where it is, but there was stats showing brit has the lowest winrate of all civs amoung ep tourneys. And this already befor manors nerf which is significant.
Anyway, appart from Kaiser, does anyone want to nerf brit ?
Image
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 8340
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

25 Mar 2019, 08:27

Kaiserklein wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Ok, what match ups do brits even lose on a standard ep map?

India : Close MU. Brit can win it if you play very precisely, but one mistake and you're dead.
Yeah that's one of the worst brit mus imo. And still not clear if brits lose it.

Iro : Somehow the MU is hard. You can't semi ff because else you die to the age 3 timing, and the amount of skirm/goon iro can get is insane. With the 6/5 kanya shipments, the 5 cuirs and the explorer ability, Iro can also deal with the longbowmen.
I haven't played this MU enough, but it might well be Iro favoured. It's definitely not an easy MU for brit though.
I've played this a lot as iro and it always feels brit favoured.

I don't know. I haven't played it a lot, but when I played it against Somppu, it almost felt Iro favoured lol

Spain : This MU is slightly brit favoured but it's not as easy as what people think. There's no way brit can age to fortress, and musk/huss timings can fail sometimes. It's definitely not hopeless.
Come on it's totally brit favoured. You can just stay colo and spam musk huss with ups, pull vils if needed to kill falcs. You don't even need a timing or an age up.
I don't know if you can... You're going to have a better eco, but vet rod/skirm beats musk/huss, especially if he has 2 falcs.

Otto : Dealing with the ff/fi shit is always annoying. Brit should probably win this MU, but again, one mistake and you're dead.
Quite sure brits win this if they scout properly. That's just otto, you can cheesed regardless of the civ you're playing, just because they have a lot of all in timings that can fuck you. But with proper scouting, I'd say otto wins only if they have a good stagecoach.

Yes, if you scout properly and don't fuck up you win. That's a bit if though, because Otto has so many cheesy strat, and if you're 30 sec late because you didn't adapt in time you're dead.

Dutch : Slightly brit favoured, but the 5w manor nerf seems to hurt in this MU. I used to have easy time winning it, but now it looks close.
This mu is super easy. I'd be willing to play it vs you as brits even if my brits suck. Same for spain actually.

I'm trash with Dutch. I could play Spain though.

France : Honestly, with the manor nerf, I feel like it's almost fre favoured. There's not much you can do against a TP musk semi. As brit you have to cut some eco to deny stagecoach, then the cuir/falc timing is very scary, and in middle game you don't even have a better eco, and your army gets raped once cav combat comes in.
Whenever I win this mu as fr it's because my opponent fucked up honestly. You have a tiny window to push, and usually it just fails if properly defended. And you also have to be careful about colo stuff, you can lose with falcs + vet musks vs pure musks lol. Though if you scout it and go skirm/goon you should be fine I guess.
Stagecoaching as france is not realistic btw. Unless brits go for full VC boom like you do, but that's probably just not the thing to do on a stagecoach map. Brits are a fast civ and can totally deny the tp line. Go play erik in this mu and try to stagecoach, we'll see how it ends.


"You have a tiny window". Against what build?
If you mean against a semi ff, you have a rather big window, and you have about the same eco anyway. Also, as I said, you don't even need to damage him with a timing if he didn't send VC, because your army in late fortress will just win thanks to upgraded cuirs.
To be fair, colonial play as brit is probably the most challenging way to play, but it doesn't work. And of course, you only stage coach vs VC lol.


Germany : Another close MU. Most players just get angry and suicide their army, while they could just wait and win in late fortress because the 200/200 Ger army beats the 200/200 brit army, even after the manor nerf. Brit has a strong timing though.
What? Ger has shitty units compared to brits. Goons > ww, huss > uhlans, lbs > skirms, it's not even close. And uhlans are not pop efficient. The only way to win this mu as ger is to hit a fortress timing when brit goes out for hunts (because if you push in the brit base you lose to pathing), but usually it just fails, unless it's a low food map where brit has to go out early.
The dream brit composition beats Germany, but in a real game Brit will have to hold, so he won't have that composition. He will have a few goons, maybe some huss, but mostly lb/pikes. And uhlan mass with cav combat+skirms+9br will beat pike/lb+some goons/some huss.

Russia : Well, this MU is hard, and I still haven't found a way to win it consistently as brit. It feels like you have to gamble.
It's a close MU yeah, depends a lot on the map. Don't think brits lose it overall though.

So imo, the only match ups where brits struggle are india, russia and otto on some maps. And they're not even losing them, it's close. That's why I think brits are too strong.

The current EP is balanced, that's why some civs almost don't lose a MU. For example, China, India, Aztecs, Iro, France and Germany have a shot to win almost every MU.

"dia abused the explorer really well I'm impressed"
Bran6new
User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 7040

25 Mar 2019, 08:39

Please use quotes. This bold text is so confusing.
Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
XeeleeFlower wrote:I don't mind open endings as long as the story continues at some point
User avatar
Spain Snuden
Jaeger
Posts: 2730
ESO: Snuden
Location: x666 HQ

25 Mar 2019, 08:44

I have around 2K games as Brits and a 50% win rate.
Conclusion: Brit is an average civ.
36: This herd, was not herded correctly towards his town center
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 8340
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

25 Mar 2019, 08:53

lol
"dia abused the explorer really well I'm impressed"
Bran6new
Vietnam Hazza54321
Gendarme
Donator 01
Posts: 5585

25 Mar 2019, 09:04

You tell these nerds dad!
User avatar
Finland princeofkabul
Howdah
NWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 1822
ESO: Princeofkabul
Location: Sunnyvale trailer park

25 Mar 2019, 12:24

Kaiserklein wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Ok, what match ups do brits even lose on a standard ep map?

India : Close MU. Brit can win it if you play very precisely, but one mistake and you're dead.
Yeah that's one of the worst brit mus imo. And still not clear if brits lose it.

Iro : Somehow the MU is hard. You can't semi ff because else you die to the age 3 timing, and the amount of skirm/goon iro can get is insane. With the 6/5 kanya shipments, the 5 cuirs and the explorer ability, Iro can also deal with the longbowmen.
I haven't played this MU enough, but it might well be Iro favoured. It's definitely not an easy MU for brit though.
I've played this a lot as iro and it always feels brit favoured.

Spain : This MU is slightly brit favoured but it's not as easy as what people think. There's no way brit can age to fortress, and musk/huss timings can fail sometimes. It's definitely not hopeless.
Come on it's totally brit favoured. You can just stay colo and spam musk huss with ups, pull vils if needed to kill falcs. You don't even need a timing or an age up.

Otto : Dealing with the ff/fi shit is always annoying. Brit should probably win this MU, but again, one mistake and you're dead.
Quite sure brits win this if they scout properly. That's just otto, you can cheesed regardless of the civ you're playing, just because they have a lot of all in timings that can fuck you. But with proper scouting, I'd say otto wins only if they have a good stagecoach.

Dutch : Slightly brit favoured, but the 5w manor nerf seems to hurt in this MU. I used to have easy time winning it, but now it looks close.
This mu is super easy. I'd be willing to play it vs you as brits even if my brits suck. Same for spain actually.

France : Honestly, with the manor nerf, I feel like it's almost fre favoured. There's not much you can do against a TP musk semi. As brit you have to cut some eco to deny stagecoach, then the cuir/falc timing is very scary, and in middle game you don't even have a better eco, and your army gets raped once cav combat comes in.
Whenever I win this mu as fr it's because my opponent fucked up honestly. You have a tiny window to push, and usually it just fails if properly defended. And you also have to be careful about colo stuff, you can lose with falcs + vet musks vs pure musks lol. Though if you scout it and go skirm/goon you should be fine I guess.
Stagecoaching as france is not realistic btw. Unless brits go for full VC boom like you do, but that's probably just not the thing to do on a stagecoach map. Brits are a fast civ and can totally deny the tp line. Go play erik in this mu and try to stagecoach, we'll see how it ends.


Germany : Another close MU. Most players just get angry and suicide their army, while they could just wait and win in late fortress because the 200/200 Ger army beats the 200/200 brit army, even after the manor nerf. Brit has a strong timing though.
What? Ger has shitty units compared to brits. Goons > ww, huss > uhlans, lbs > skirms, it's not even close. And uhlans are not pop efficient. The only way to win this mu as ger is to hit a fortress timing when brit goes out for hunts (because if you push in the brit base you lose to pathing), but usually it just fails, unless it's a low food map where brit has to go out early.

Russia : Well, this MU is hard, and I still haven't found a way to win it consistently as brit. It feels like you have to gamble.
It's a close MU yeah, depends a lot on the map. Don't think brits lose it overall though.

So imo, the only match ups where brits struggle are india, russia and otto on some maps. And they're not even losing them, it's close. That's why I think brits are too strong.

SirCallen wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Ok, what match ups do brits even lose on a standard ep map?

I watched you lose to Soldier(?) Russia as Brit like 5x on stream.

It was somppu, and 2 times I think lol, not 5. Iirc it was on low food maps like Alaska, and after 6h of streaming or so. Plus I don't even have good brits, and it was still super close games.
Anyway yeah russia vs brit is close.

EDIT:

=> yeah 2 times, both on alaska, after 5+ hours of streaming/commenting.


everytime whether I open kaiser twitch stream or now, a past stream linked on esoc that fucking song, that fucking smoke on the fucking water, I swear to god. every single time. Almost as common phenomena as Hazza stream and in da club.
Co-Founder of Somali Kabuli Gaming
Vietnam Hazza54321
Gendarme
Donator 01
Posts: 5585

25 Mar 2019, 13:11

princeofkabul wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
Show hidden quotes

So imo, the only match ups where brits struggle are india, russia and otto on some maps. And they're not even losing them, it's close. That's why I think brits are too strong.

Show hidden quotes

It was somppu, and 2 times I think lol, not 5. Iirc it was on low food maps like Alaska, and after 6h of streaming or so. Plus I don't even have good brits, and it was still super close games.
Anyway yeah russia vs brit is close.

EDIT:

=> yeah 2 times, both on alaska, after 5+ hours of streaming/commenting.


everytime whether I open kaiser twitch stream or now, a past stream linked on esoc that fucking song, that fucking smoke on the fucking water, I swear to god. every single time. Almost as common phenomena as Hazza stream and in da club.
cant hate on 50
User avatar
No Flag Djigit
Lancer
Posts: 684

14 May 2019, 21:21

https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Thin_Red_Line
I know it's not top priority but I use the church card in some MUs as Brit and the Thin Red Line tech is truly messed up. Can this be balanced by reducing the speed penalty and the HP bonus if needed please? -25% speed is WAY too much.
Emperor of
Image
User avatar
Kiribati SirCallen
Gendarme
Posts: 7363
ESO: KTRAlN
Location: Midwest best west

15 May 2019, 00:05

Lol, it's really bad.
and the giving famishes the craving
sweet thames, run softly, til I end my song

The shepherd's staff's tantalus around my neck

let the water
touch the tongue
User avatar
No Flag Djigit
Lancer
Posts: 684

15 May 2019, 01:16

SirCallen wrote:Lol, it's really bad.
Yesh. It's like shooting oneself in the foot Image
Emperor of
Image
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 9690
ESO: Pezet
Location: Poland

15 May 2019, 08:38

just send AA and research military drummers
I drive all the time
It's no big deal
Open the door
And get behind the wheel :smile:
User avatar
No Flag Djigit
Lancer
Posts: 684

15 May 2019, 11:08

pecelot wrote:just send AA and research military drummers
I'm a spiritual kind of person. Gott mit uns!
Emperor of
Image
User avatar
Spain Snuden
Jaeger
Posts: 2730
ESO: Snuden
Location: x666 HQ

15 May 2019, 11:13

Hopefully this will work for all cases.
36: This herd, was not herded correctly towards his town center

Forum Info

Return to “ESOC Civilizations Discussion”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests