Ottomans Discussion Thread

[iNcog]

This is the Ottoman Discussion thread, where several topics concerning this civilization on the ESOC Patch may be discussed. We're looking for feedback on the current state of balance, from the community's standpoint.

[Cometk]

hypee!!!! now i can play my favorite civ and hopefully not feel guilty for it

[edeholland]

We know the Silk Road card still has the team icon, but it doesn't really work in team games.

[momuuu]

I have been trying out a neat silk road build. At starting crates of 100f 400w you can get 2 TP's. Delay the 3 vill shipment by a little bit (when the 9th villager finishes ship it) and put all vills on wood once you age up. You can barely affort a house before the next villager finishes, although its very close. ship silk road, 700w, 700g, 600g, 3 huss. It increased my mass by a few units (I got 23 jans, 19 abus and 8 huss at 9:52 with poor execution, which I got at 10:20 without silk road) and allowed me to squeeze in a mosque. It feels like this build is really good if you start with exactly those crates. 15% more abus would be 1.5 abus when you have 10 abus, so this would mean that otto is indeed not nerfed at those specific starting crates.

[Garja]

with 400w you can go sr without 3v and have like 50 units at 8 minutes

[Jaeger]

with 400w you can go sr without 3v and have like 50 units at 8 minutes

So why was sr buffed then?

[Kaiserklein]

I tried silk road vs a comp and if you do the 3v / sr / 700w / 700g / 600g build with 400w start you can have your early tp + another tp without chopping any wood + a shipment ready when you hit colonial. Then with 500w age up you can just make a forward rax + stagecoach + a house and harass as fast as a jan rush (except you don't send the 5 jans), and catch up with the normal abus jan build. But you will have way more eco, the mass you can get is unbelievable, I will try to post a rec if I can.

Garja if you send only sr in discovery, what's your build ? Use straight away 400w for 2 tps, or still keep 20w in each crate ? In fact it's true you get so much free stuff with sr, from the trade route and the homecity, that 3 vils might not be that useful

[vaal_no_3]

i agree with Jerom and kaiserklein.

1. "Silk Road" card moved to discovery age (from from colonial) and effect increased to 25% (up from 15%). Team effect removed.
---so they can put 1 more card in colonial.
-- still can do boom/mass batter in colonial with extra 10% tp bonus insane.

2. Abus gun reload time increased to 3.5 seconds (up from 3 seconds, about -14% dps).
--ok. but imo Abus gun making time should be more, so then can mass less when, opponent is doing semi ff. otherwise there will be no option to do semi ff vs oto.

3. Improved upgrade ??Veteran Abus Gun? to also give +2 range.
--ok.

4. Mosque cost increased to 150w (up from 100) and XP income increased to 0.7 xp/s (up from 0.4).
--ok. good for them in non tp map.

vs. otto wall(1500hp) is no good any more.

[Rikikipu]

I like the silk road thing in discovery. It gives just more options to ottomans and finally a decent eco. But the main problem are still abus. They need to be nerfed a little bit.

[Mimsy for President]

I like the silk road thing in discovery. It gives just more options to ottomans and finally a decent eco. But the main problem are still abus. They need to be nerfed a little bit.

I agree. [strike]But if they are nerfed (again), I hope they''ll get a bonus vs ranged cavalry.[/strike]

[deleted_user0]

they already have that

[Mimsy for President]

they already have that

You are right. Why I had that feeling they were doing nothing vs goons and bow riders :/

[zoom]

A greater one then perhaps, I suppose.

[momuuu]

they already have that

You are right. Why I had that feeling they were doing nothing vs goons and bow riders :/

because they have a 0.5 multiplier vs cav rather than a 0.8 one.

Anyways, 14% less dps which is even less when hit and running is an extremely small nerf when I come to think about it. Between 5-10 minutes, the timing at which otto tends to win the game, we are talking about 1-2 abus less compared to the re patch. Thats like equal to getting really good treasures, but not much more.

Does that mean we have to conclude that jan abus wasnt OP to begin with?

[Mimsy for President]

You are right. Why I had that feeling they were doing nothing vs goons and bow riders :/

because they have a 0.5 multiplier vs cav rather than a 0.8 one.

Anyways, 14% less dps which is even less when hit and running is an extremely small nerf when I come to think about it. Between 5-10 minutes, the timing at which otto tends to win the game, we are talking about 1-2 abus less compared to the re patch. Thats like equal to getting really good treasures, but not much more.

Does that mean we have to conclude that jan abus wasnt OP to begin with?

It says x1.5 vs. Light Cavalry here http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Abus_Gun
And Light Cav = Ranged Cav if Im not mistaken. Still I had this weird feeling, especially vs sioux.

Im sure the staff will fix it if it turns out otto is still op. There is no real feedback for now except the game with diarouga and goongoon (EP replay pack). And thats clearly not enough to draw conclusions.

[deleted_user0]

its 0.5 vs all cav + 1.5 vs light cav = 0.75 total multiplier vs light cav.

where as normal ranged infantry usually has 0.75 vs cav and 2.0 vs cav = 1.5 total multiplier vs light cav.

[Mimsy for President]

Well that's shit then. BUFF !

[Kaiserklein]

On nilla abus do *0.5 vs goons. It makes it easier mainly for france and ports to counter otto, by massing goons and shipping a few skirms. On RE patch tad goons lost quite hard to abus guns unfortunately.

Rikipu I agree that silk road is a nice alternative to the basic otto lame, but it has to be balanced. Also doesn't it change the otto meta, making them invest more in their eco ? I don't have any problem with that, but I think the fp team didn't want to shift the meta

[zoom]

You are right. Why I had that feeling they were doing nothing vs goons and bow riders :/

because they have a 0.5 multiplier vs cav rather than a 0.8 one.

Anyways, 14% less dps which is even less when hit and running is an extremely small nerf when I come to think about it. Between 5-10 minutes, the timing at which otto tends to win the game, we are talking about 1-2 abus less compared to the re patch. Thats like equal to getting really good treasures, but not much more.

Does that mean we have to conclude that jan abus wasnt OP to begin with?

Its by no means an extremely small nerf. Its not big though.

[momuuu]

because they have a 0.5 multiplier vs cav rather than a 0.8 one.

Anyways, 14% less dps which is even less when hit and running is an extremely small nerf when I come to think about it. Between 5-10 minutes, the timing at which otto tends to win the game, we are talking about 1-2 abus less compared to the re patch. Thats like equal to getting really good treasures, but not much more.

Does that mean we have to conclude that jan abus wasnt OP to begin with?

Its by no means an extremely small nerf. Its not big though.

I think its the smallest nerf of the set though, after the japan wonder nerf.

[zoom]

On nilla abus do *0.5 vs goons. It makes it easier mainly for france and ports to counter otto, by massing goons and shipping a few skirms. On RE patch tad goons lost quite hard to abus guns unfortunately.

Rikipu I agree that silk road is a nice alternative to the basic otto lame, but it has to be balanced. Also doesn''t it change the otto meta, making them invest more in their eco ? I don''t have any problem with that, but I think the fp team didn''t want to shift the meta

For civilizations like Ottomans and Sioux, slight meta changes may be a necessity. Silk Road allows Ottomans the option to invest more in their economy, but it doesn''t force them to. It''s a compromise.

[Kaiserklein]

On nilla abus do *0.5 vs goons. It makes it easier mainly for france and ports to counter otto, by massing goons and shipping a few skirms. On RE patch tad goons lost quite hard to abus guns unfortunately.

Rikipu I agree that silk road is a nice alternative to the basic otto lame, but it has to be balanced. Also doesnt it change the otto meta, making them invest more in their eco ? I dont have any problem with that, but I think the fp team didnt want to shift the meta

For civilizations like Ottomans and Sioux, slight meta changes may be a necessity. Silk Road allows Ottomans the option to invest more in their economy, but it doesnt force them to. Its a compromise.

Ok but it still seems too powerful. 25 in discovery is really much

[Mimsy for President]

It's enough to fix its crap eco.

[momuuu]

I think its objectively stronger on a 400w 100f start by a pretty large margin. Enough to compensate the abus nerf for sure.

[zoom]

For civilizations like Ottomans and Sioux, slight meta changes may be a necessity. Silk Road allows Ottomans the option to invest more in their economy, but it doesnt force them to. Its a compromise.

Ok but it still seems too powerful. 25 in discovery is really much

Thats entirely possible. Im only reluctant to jump to conclusions. Again, allow me to emphasize: If its an issue it will no doubt be addressed.