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Garja wrote:May I ask what is the idea behind the first two changes?

By the way, I think the ability of building teepees with units is overrated. I mean, it is certainly good and might be game winning but I don't think it is necessary at all to use teepees to their full extent, even offensively. Because of this, I don't think "aggressive policy" card should be considered that important in Sioux deck.

Certainly! Before that, however, I would like to clarify that "Aggressive Policy" currently buffs the gather-rate aura of Teepees from 4% to 6%, and that "Friendly Territory" adds an attack-aura to Teepees, just in case it helps avoid any misunderstandings.

The "Command Skill" buff is strictly a team-game late-game affair, and the shipment is quite weak currently at 10% in radius 18.

"Aggressive Policy" buff is the same idea as the "Nomadic Expansion" one – to increase the viability of the two lesser shipments of the three, as Sioux Colonial is quite pressed for deck space.

Ok. I hope aggressive policy card effect gets reverted for a number of reasons.
Also I'd like to point out that "command skill" card is already basically the only valuable age4 card for Sioux, more so on team decks. 18 range is mediocre but the 10% aura boost is quite good, considering all the other card upgrades and the fact that a sizeable Sioux cav ball can do nasty things such as one-shooting Asian wonders.

Again, the only idea behind it is to buff Sioux late-game for team games, which is surely not strong currently.

I don't think Sioux in team game has ever been bad. I mean super late game maybe, but there is a whole game before getting to the point when Sioux struggle (farm and plants basically).
As matter of reference take a look at this game

Is it possible that the path taken with sioux is leading to a dead end?

But what if it's the right dead end, with flowers and honey and par economic supplementation and balanced military fortification?

Sioux with siege dance and the warchief who boosts speed by 10% and attack by 20% would be scary af. Imo what makes sioux lategame less fun to play is their eco which is simply garbage. Stacking the teepees close to the farms and plantations could be a good solution imo, but with 4.2 you can't stack anymore.

gamevideo113 wrote:Sioux with siege dance and the warchief who boosts speed by 10% and attack by 20% would be scary af. Imo what makes sioux lategame less fun to play is their eco which is simply garbage. Stacking the teepees close to the farms and plantations could be a good solution imo, but with 4.2 you can't stack anymore.

In late game, you anyway have 10 plants/mills, and that takes quite a bit of space. I don't think 6 teepees next to each other would cover all this. 10 teepees might be better, even with the range constraint.

@Kaiserklein do sioux have the upgrades on farms and plantations? that most of the europeans have? or the asiens? Dont think so that is not good enough imo

@spanky4ever do you think in 1v1 people have enough of these cards in deck to make up for a big teepee boost? And do you think it's easy to ship a ton of upgrades, compared to spending like 500w on teepees?

Kaiserklein wrote:@spanky4ever do you think in 1v1 people have enough of these cards in deck to make up for a big teepee boost? And do you think it's easy to ship a ton of upgrades, compared to spending like 500w on teepees?

no
but in a 2v2 or even a 3v3, it could be importaint. But I see your point, sioux should win in the first 20 min, or they are out? This is often what happens, they are out ecoed in the 20 min+

this is how my games are going, anyways (im average level )

Well they used to die in late game. They had OP units but shit eco. Now with teepees their late game eco is probably just fine, and their units are still pretty good. Siege dance is OP too. Their big weakness is the lack of walls

Kaiserklein wrote:Well they used to die in late game. They had OP units but shit eco. Now with teepees their late game eco is probably just fine, and their units are still pretty good. Siege dance is OP too. Their big weakness is the lack of walls

nice point, sioux is the ONLY civ lacking walls! The teepees should not be nerfed, but made better imo.

Yeah lets randomly buff sioux again

@Hazza54321 lets randomly buff smth for non reason cuz someone will luv it

I guess it depends on how big the money leverage is wether sioux gets a buff or not

Not big enough..
Considering simply reducing gather rate aura from 4% to 2% or 3%.

Just give up, from the start it's been endless bandaid fixes. This entire path where you need to change a million things to sioux is just doomed to become endlessly convoluted. Start from scratch, and actually try to consider what the problems with sioux are.

Would increasing Teepee cost by 10-15w be a reasonable change? Makes the macro a bit more challenging while also making it unclear whether or not you should max your Teepees right away in every single game. Seems like the main problem with Teepees right now anyway is that they do too much for their cost.

Not sure if that really solves the problem of not being able to punish them in age 2 whatsoever because of the +30-60% hp depending on how many teepees they have. Could nerf the hp buff slightly or have the aura cap out at 20-30% or something?

Could also consider building in a toggle for the teepees so you have to switch between an economic or military-type aura? If the timer on the toggle was lengthier than most other toggles in the game (say, 5-10 seconds instead of 1 second), it could also help mitigate this problem I think.

Or what about making it so that Teepees are siegable by ranged damage as well as siege damage? This would make it easier to pressure the base, and could add some RR to make it less punishing if you don't have many units.

Lots of random ideas here; not sure how viable they all are, but trying to think outside of the box a bit for this issue.


Should also consider changing the Warchief so that it actually takes reasonable damage from dragoon-type units and/or removing the snare (makes age 1 less dominant and army-positioning mistakes from the opponent less punishing from an already hyper-mobile Sioux army).

Or just revert to RE with 5v and cetan buff/br nerf.

Goodspeed wrote:Not big enough..
Considering simply reducing gather rate aura from 4% to 2% or 3%.

This change alone won't solve either (the balance or gameplay) issue. I think a cost increase is the better option, then, if you want to keep the aura.

I think karni mata teepees are straight up stupid for one.

momuuu wrote:I think karni mata teepees are straight up stupid for one.

So do a lot of people, apparently. What about Porcelain Tower Teepees?

What about not removing a civ and then creating a new one in a balance patch?