Spanish Discussion Thread

[chronique]

Spainsh skirms with unction are actually insane, so why would spain need more buffs to their unit stats?

fp full card + wc is still better than skirm unction ahah.

[Riotcoke]

Spainsh skirms with unction are actually insane, so why would spain need more buffs to their unit stats?

fp full card + wc is still better than skirm unction ahah.

That's 3x cards though and 25 vills dancing

[chronique]

Na lol without dancing

[dansil92]

Fp max at 47 attack with all dancers, unction skirms are 60+ no?

[chronique]

Fp max at 47 attack with all dancers, unction skirms are 60+ no?

Idk, i am talking about age 3 ^^. fp full upg wc have less atta but more hp. But age 5 yea, unction apply on current stat and not base.

[duckzilla]

Fp max at 47 attack with all dancers, unction skirms are 60+ no?

Unction buffs dmg by ~62%. Since spanish skirms have ~32dmg in late-game, the max should be around 52dmg.

[Hazza54321]

unction'd skirms are 52, fp are 46 or smth with all dancers

[duckzilla]

That's an obvious advantage for Spain, considering the cost in vill seconds.

[Rohbrot]

And again, where we do see in a Tourney Game that a spainish player can get away with unction?

[chris1089]

It cost so much to ship the card and make the missionaries that the game would either have to be won or be late game

[Kawapasaka]

And again, where we do see in a Tourney Game that a spainish player can get away with unction?

I remember one

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/547828095?t=01h41m18s

[Rohbrot]

And again, where we do see in a Tourney Game that a spainish player can get away with unction?

I remember one

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/547828095?t=01h41m18s

Yeah, good example of how you can lose a Fav MU as brits when spain plays colonial. Turk Had so much time cuz brits did wrong. but good Match of turk He did The best at this map

[Jets]

Spanish Gold as a gold trickle card, being sent in age 2 to fulfill the gaps on spain eco against other civs, more settlers on food/wood rather than gold.

This is based on that campaign scenario where the galleons would give gold since they were spanish

[Black_Duck]

Spanish gold is already serves the purpose of fulfilling the eco gap. Its like 10+ vills for a few minutes.

[Jets]

Spanish gold is already serves the purpose of fulfilling the eco gap. Its like 10+ vills for a few minutes.

But after loosing the invested gold on troops/mercs/techs, you end up with a semi-decent amount of settlers that can't keep up with the pacing of the late game.

What about changing some Mercenaries shipments to Conquistadors? I hate not to see that nat unit in my troops, since British get highlanders, germans get more mercs from their land(jaegers, black riders), it's quite frustating not to have your own historical troops on your civ. Maybe as a church card, or an Age 3 shipment, replacing the Elmeti card with 7 Conquistadors.

Corselet tech (from the special church card): Shouldn't Lancers get that buff too? Since they wear a huge breastplate on their model. It would be a dangerous tech to research since it decreases the heavy inf speed by 15%. That would make a play based around lancers and light inf. That would be a whole new aspect for the civ playstyle.

Tercio Tactis: Turns all Pikemen into Musketeers. That's the only scenario I see that card being useful. Or buff pykes/rods significantly.

Pykemen with a base 2/3/4 range on their melee attack.

sorry if I keep spaming this request, It would be the last time, I just found Spain being not unique... And I quote the WoL site on this:

"Can't quite shine. Even when they are strong overall, for whatever your opponent's civilization is good at, he is better at it than you."

And I watch every match in the tournament, it's always the same decks, maybe some water play/unction card or maybe shipping rods buff cards, but aside from that, nothing ever changes, no church, no mercs, no tercios. I just see spain with tecnically, worser cards than the rest of the civs, which is ironic, since it's a civ with a bonus based on xp and shipments.
e.g., Cav Combat doesn't affect goons.

[duckzilla]

I would love seeing more techs/cards being viable. Corselet is one of them. A speed nerf to heavy infantry for a buff whose value severely declines over time is just bad. Firstly, heavy infantry is generally highly dependent on its speed, since the units are already slower than what they are supposed to counter. Secondly, the speed nerf makes it difficult to escape their own counter units. Thirdly, the HP buff neither significantly improves HI's ability to counter cav nor its survivability against ranged infantry. Finally, with every new upgrade, the value of the HP buff decreased while the speed nerf stays nearly identical. A fully upped Rod without Corselet has 337.5 HP. Corselet adds exactly 10% to its final HP stats.

In my opinion, the game design surrounding additive multipliers used for unit upgrades is not well-suited to make cards like Corselet viable. It would be better if cards like this affect unit stats that are not subject to change over time, which would keep their benefit constant.

Corselet could boost melee + range armor by 20% each for melee infantry. It would mean that a unit has two armor types at the same time. This is at least consistent with the cover mode, which halves melee inf speed and gives it an invisible range resistance of 50%.

[Black_Duck]

Spanish gold is already serves the purpose of fulfilling the eco gap. Its like 10+ vills for a few minutes.

But after loosing the invested gold on troops/mercs/techs, you end up with a semi-decent amount of settlers that can't keep up with the pacing of the late game.

What about changing some Mercenaries shipments to Conquistadors? I hate not to see that nat unit in my troops, since British get highlanders, germans get more mercs from their land(jaegers, black riders), it's quite frustating not to have your own historical troops on your civ. Maybe as a church card, or an Age 3 shipment, replacing the Elmeti card with 7 Conquistadors.

Corselet tech (from the special church card): Shouldn't Lancers get that buff too? Since they wear a huge breastplate on their model. It would be a dangerous tech to research since it decreases the heavy inf speed by 15%. That would make a play based around lancers and light inf. That would be a whole new aspect for the civ playstyle.

Tercio Tactis: Turns all Pikemen into Musketeers. That's the only scenario I see that card being useful. Or buff pykes/rods significantly.

Pykemen with a base 2/3/4 range on their melee attack.

sorry if I keep spaming this request, It would be the last time, I just found Spain being not unique... And I quote the WoL site on this:

"Can't quite shine. Even when they are strong overall, for whatever your opponent's civilization is good at, he is better at it than you."

And I watch every match in the tournament, it's always the same decks, maybe some water play/unction card or maybe shipping rods buff cards, but aside from that, nothing ever changes, no church, no mercs, no tercios. I just see spain with tecnically, worser cards than the rest of the civs, which is ironic, since it's a civ with a bonus based on xp and shipments.
e.g., Cav Combat doesn't affect goons.

Do you normally play on re or ep? I think if you played on ep you'd see that spain are a strong civ. If you waste the gold you get from spanish gold, then you deserve to lose because youve fought badly. You can get a really big eco with a stagecoach and spanish gold for example. Also, not every civ is meant to be able to compete with each other late game in the way that you perhaps expect. In terms of historical troops, I'm a bit confused with what you are saying, Spain do have rods and lancers which are unique to the civ. In terms of lancers and light inf thats already a playstyle and Lancers can get quadruple carded so there really is no need for another upgrade. Rods are already good and dont need buffing. Pikemen serve the purpose they are meant to serve.

[Rohbrot]

]Spain has really many viable strats u can do so much things, imo use nats more or use merc more if u want to play so i did this quite often in the past its fun with unction

[chronique]

Spain is more unique than france, why so many peaple want change my spain?? Unction is nice, caba is not usless and spanish gold is the most successfull change in term of civ design, game play and historical accurracy. Idk the guy who did that but he is the reason why i am here and play 100% spain now.

[Guigs]

Spain is more unique than france, why so many peaple want change my spain?? Unction is nice, caba is not usless and spanish gold is the most successfull change in term of civ design, game play and historical accurracy. Idk the guy who did that but he is the reason why i am here and play 100% spain now.

? No one wanna change spain, check beta there's no changes planned

[chronique]

? No one wanna change spain, check beta there's no changes planned

I come here and see 2 thread about spain, that's why ^^

[Rohbrot]

@chronique, thats cuz spain is the most loved civ in our community.

[chris1089]

*Japan

[Rohbrot]

Japan has 1 active thread atm :)

[Jets]

Do you normally play on re or ep? I think if you played on ep you'd see that spain are a strong civ. If you waste the gold you get from spanish gold, then you deserve to lose because youve fought badly. You can get a really big eco with a stagecoach and spanish gold for example. Also, not every civ is meant to be able to compete with each other late game in the way that you perhaps expect. In terms of historical troops, I'm a bit confused with what you are saying, Spain do have rods and lancers which are unique to the civ. In terms of lancers and light inf thats already a playstyle and Lancers can get quadruple carded so there really is no need for another upgrade. Rods are already good and dont need buffing. Pikemen serve the purpose they are meant to serve.

The only concern I have is the lack of use in spain unique cards. As you reflavored Spanish gold, maybe give the other techs the same treatment(Tercios).

Atm I'm exploring spain colonial potential in EP, aging with 400food or 2 settlers while chopping wood with 8-9 vills can get you a market, a barracks and 5 xbows at 5-6 min. While aging I send Capitalism card to fulfill the gold early gold techs, then 700W, then 5 vills, 4 vills, military cards, and right-click the enemy base. I'm looking forward to use the spain church card, but the corselet is double edge sword, since the speed debuff. Other than that, corselet should definitely buff Lancers, it's pure logic: metal armored lancer --- metal armor tech. This way you wouldn't rely on pykes,musks or rods anymore on age3 and 4, just cav and skirms-goons heavily, this is a countereable strategy, and a difficult one to pull off. I genuinely see it viable, as a less infantry spain, but a cav relying one.