They don't even play Germany and they have an insane winrate xD.
Wouldn't draw too many conclusions from those stats since you don't know who the opponents were. According to stats for me, my best civ is aztecs (71% winrate) xD @Lukas_L99 So do we now conclude that aztecs is tier 0 and not trash like you've argued?
I was obviously trolling lol.
Ok cause it seems like you and sompp are trying to argue that "because hazza/sompp doesn't main ger but still have good winrate it has to be OP". Sick troll though
You're pretty bad at having constructive conversations..
Anyway, its pretty logical to ask: if you think a civ is op: Prove it, by winning with it. Not sure why you instantly want to try to spin that back on me in a different way. And if none of you three aren't willing to do so, then conversation is over.
IAmSoldieR wrote:You're pretty bad at having constructive conversations..
Anyway, its pretty logical to ask: if you think a civ is op: Prove it, by winning with it. Not sure why you instantly want to try to spin that back on me in a different way.
Somppu tried to reverse your argument to show you that it doesn't make sense, and you ignored that.
It's pretty logical to ask : if you think a civ is not underpowered : Prove it, by winning with it. Thus, if I claim that India is underpowered and deserves a buff you have to play as India against me to prove that India isn't weak, right? And if you lose all the games it means that India is weak and that we need to buff the civ.
If you can't understand how unlogical what you're saying is, we can't really have constructive conversations. Especially what you say about "counter-examples" that's its spinning it back on you.
But yea, I just massed, 5 mins ago, 150 pop of industrial shit in 14 mins, with 2 factories, 25% uhlan hp/att, guard upgrades, versus a civ that has no chance of ever pushing, especially if they can't be sure that it's going to be 90 pop of fortress shit in 9 mins their base. Can see it from elo.
And yes, it felt really fucking op and unfair game to my opponent.
But yea, I just massed, 5 mins ago, 150 pop of industrial shit in 14 mins, with 2 factories, 25% uhlan hp/att, guard upgrades, versus a civ that has no chance of ever pushing, especially if they can't be sure that it's going to be 90 pop of fortress shit in 9 mins their base. Can see it from elo.
And yes, it felt really fucking op and unfair game to my opponent.
They don't even play Germany and they have an insane winrate xD.
Wouldn't draw too many conclusions from those stats since you don't know who the opponents were. According to stats for me, my best civ is aztecs (71% winrate) xD @Lukas_L99 So do we now conclude that aztecs is tier 0 and not trash like you've argued?
Anyway, what do you think about germany in terms of balance?
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Soldier's logic is not completely flawed tbh. If you claim germany is OP then you should back it up by showing that even ppl who don't know how to play it that well can consistently win with it. It doesn't make sense to ask soldier to play with india to show india is UP, because he isn't claiming that. The burden of proof is on who makes the claim, theoretically if you were to prove that india is weak you'd have to show that even with the best possible circumstances (map favouring india and india player playing it), india is still losing against other civs. It's like putting a PR5 vs a PR20 to prove that PR5's civ is UP. Just flawed logic.
Best format would be: -5 games between two good Ger players, of which one is using Ger and the other isn't (to prove that even when people know what to do vs Ger, it still comes out on top); -5 games between non-Ger player using Ger and Ger player using other civ (to prove that even those who don't main ger can get some free wins because of the strength of the civ); -5 games between Ger player using Ger and another player with his non-Ger main civ (to prove that Germany is just overall stronger than other civs).
The real problems are the map this would be played on. If you pick a ger favouring map you expect it to win consistently, so even if it does, you're not proving anything really, unless it has like a 80% win ratio. If you pick non TP maps germany can't really shine, therefore on these maps you can only prove that it's still a map dependant civ. I would suggest that of the 5 games, 1 is played on a Ger favouring map, 3 on a Ger neutral map and 1 on a Ger bad map, like no TP. The last problem is the crate start. People claim Germany is op with wood start only. Again, having Germany play at the best contitions for it to win makes for flawed results because in an actual game you won't be getting wood starts only. The right thing to do would be to replicate all the 15 games with every possible crate start, but since it is an inhuman amount of work i'd just suggest to play the series once and keep the random crates.
It's honestly really hard to tell if the civ is only op on 1 particular crate start on TP maps only or op in general.
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
The thing is, if germany is only OP on crate start+TP map, how do you even fix it without nerfing all the other crate starts too?
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
gamevideo113 wrote:The thing is, if germany is only OP on crate start+TP map, how do you even fix it without nerfing all the other crate starts too?
Germany is op on wood start and top tier on the other starts. Thus you have to nerf Germany because it's top tier, and nerf them a bit more because they're going to be better 1/3 of the time.
Team anti german is being very disappointing in this thread. Ill play some germans then attempt to prove my point, just need to be motivated to willingly play 1v1> team
gamevideo113 wrote:The thing is, if germany is only OP on crate start+TP map, how do you even fix it without nerfing all the other crate starts too?
Germany is op on wood start and top tier on the other starts. Thus you have to nerf Germany because it's top tier, and nerf them a bit more because they're going to be better 1/3 of the time.
Ok then i think the format i proposed can be a good way to establish it.
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
gamevideo113 wrote:Soldier's logic is not completely flawed tbh. If you claim germany is OP then you should back it up by showing that even ppl who don't know how to play it that well can consistently win with it.
Really? Hypocrisy appeared here.. I wish this attitude was valid in the past, I'm talking about nerfing turtle style of play like 5 times in a row. Noone asked us to prove it's beatable, thus it was beatable even in the past. But since a certain group of players don't like to deal with it, they want this game to be centered at age2/age3 play without having to deal with other strats. I ask just to be a little honest. Did you ever see an attitude like this when turtle style was nerfed like 5 times? No. Noone had to prove a point because their desicion making mechanisms were working great, no need for feedback. Make random changes up to your mind 5 times and when people realizes one of the civ you play is overpowered without doubt, you suddenly come up with the claim that you can beat your own civ then all are fine ! I wish turtle players had right to do the same but yea, hypocrisy comes into play.
My only wish is aoe3 DE won't be run with this flawed logic, defend your own play but do all possible ways to nerf the way you don't like
how did germany suddenly become OP? I'm pretty sure ger france were considered top tier on the first EP versions (not OP tho) and then got nerfed. Now suddenly germany is op without being changed.
Germans were always strong. They get nerfed but german players have adopted a more of skirm ww jaegar style with uhlan shipments rather than training uhlans. Its also due to the fact civs like brit otto jap were nerfed (with changes and or maps). Didn’t particularly like brit vs german anyway so hard to defend all your vills and match his military to survive
Yea, people used to go skirm/uhlan and never make a single WW (that was the H2O rule). Now people just go skim/jaeger/WW and it's even better than what the ger players used to do.
