If you're going to patch something, patch this

[momuuu]

But not against skirms. Skirms annihilate units with less range honestly. I wasnt doing it enough but in any battle with skirm goon its really good to continuously keep hit and running and moving back, goons kill so many free goons and whenever you are too far back for your opponent to pursue he loses even more units upon retreat. Ive recently had some games where the amount of free stuff I killed doing that was worth of more than the amount of units I had when I won the game, in other words that won me the game.

Zhanson probably doesnt master hit n run yet.

[Kaiserklein]

Nah I'm a 1st lt and I beat a captain who played Dutch, as Japan. I made pure age 2 Ashis and he tried to hit and run but it didn't matter and he got rekked.

But captains don't kite as well as one can. Of course ashis are annoying because of their speed and their incredible upgrades, but still skirms should win

[momuuu]

Also theres other factors like numbers and the part where japan can kinda beat dutch quite easily.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yeah, dutch is one of the weakest civ on the RE patch.
Sadly people don't know how to counter japan even as aztec, fre, ger under the pr30-35, that s why they might seem op.

[lesllamas]

Yeah, dutch is one of the weakest civ on the RE patch.
Sadly people don't know how to counter japan even as aztec, fre, ger under the pr30-35, that s why they might seem op.

Yeah, and of course the state of balance is really a relative term. Certain game mechanics or units become significantly stronger or weaker at different levels of play. That's why I've always dislike blanket statements like "Japan is OP" or "Germans are prohibitively the best civilization". Everyone's opinion is going to be tailored to the level of play they're at, or the level of play they spectate (i.e. watching other players on twitch streams).

I'm totally down with balancing the game for top level play because if you're gonna balance it for any level arbitrarily, you might as well make it for the people who are going to use it the most and produce good gameplay. But when somebody who's like PR 25 says, "holy shit Japan is impossible to beat," it's probably better to explain to them the game mechanics they need to develop in order to jump that roadblock rather than just say "wow git gud Japan is tier 3 all civs beat them lel u lieut scrub".

[forgrin]

Yeah, dutch is one of the weakest civ on the RE patch.
Sadly people don't know how to counter japan even as aztec, fre, ger under the pr30-35, that s why they might seem op.

Please teach us the ways of beating Japan, great master!

[deleted_user0]

Honestly skirms are just the strongest unit. By strongest, I mean that you won't find any other unit that can get that many free kills by kiting and staying at range. Ofc then some units have better stats (like strelets) or are more mobile (like goons), but I feel like skirms are those units that get the best trades you can dream of, when microed well and well covered. For example it's not worth trying to kill 5 skirms with 50 musks when the skirms are at 20 range, because you will lose like 10 musks when being kited which is worth more than 5 skirms. Does anyone know a unit that can get such insane trades ? (no jinetes plz)

Heavy cannons on strelets, no stagger mode.

Cannons obviously, 20 range dragoons :p

[iNcog]

Dark templars on vcs, ultralisks 7-3 vs marines 0-0.

DID YOU KNOW THAT

A fully armored ultralisk only takes ONE DAMAGE per marine shot?

[deleted_user]

lol the british is back!

#BZ10

#BZ10

[zoom]

Yeah, dutch is one of the weakest civ on the RE patch.
Sadly people don't know how to counter japan even as aztec, fre, ger under the pr30-35, that s why they might seem op.

Yeah, and of course the state of balance is really a relative term. Certain game mechanics or units become significantly stronger or weaker at different levels of play. That's why I've always dislike blanket statements like "Japan is OP" or "Germans are prohibitively the best civilization". Everyone's opinion is going to be tailored to the level of play they're at, or the level of play they spectate (i.e. watching other players on twitch streams).

I'm totally down with balancing the game for top level play because if you're gonna balance it for any level arbitrarily, you might as well make it for the people who are going to use it the most and produce good gameplay. But when somebody who's like PR 25 says, "holy shit Japan is impossible to beat," it's probably better to explain to them the game mechanics they need to develop in order to jump that roadblock rather than just say "wow git gud Japan is tier 3 all civs beat them lel u lieut scrub".

lessllamas meets the necessary requirements for my official seal of "reasonably intelligent individual".

[iNcog]

he has shown sparks of intelligence, which is indeed something rare on esoc forums!

[pecelot]

im an esoc user and feel offended

[lordraphael]

Dark templars on vcs, ultralisks 7-3 vs marines 0-0.

DID YOU KNOW THAT

A fully armored ultralisk only takes ONE DAMAGE per marine shot?

every sc2 player knows that i think the infamous "marine tickle attack"

[iNcog]

i didn't until i'd learned it (i guess that holds true for everyone) but i remember being so surprised

[pecelot]

A marine in Civ 2 has 8 attack and 5 defence, did you know that?!?!?

[iNcog]

woah there

[lesllamas]

Yeah, dutch is one of the weakest civ on the RE patch.
Sadly people don't know how to counter japan even as aztec, fre, ger under the pr30-35, that s why they might seem op.

Yeah, and of course the state of balance is really a relative term. Certain game mechanics or units become significantly stronger or weaker at different levels of play. That's why I've always dislike blanket statements like "Japan is OP" or "Germans are prohibitively the best civilization". Everyone's opinion is going to be tailored to the level of play they're at, or the level of play they spectate (i.e. watching other players on twitch streams).

I'm totally down with balancing the game for top level play because if you're gonna balance it for any level arbitrarily, you might as well make it for the people who are going to use it the most and produce good gameplay. But when somebody who's like PR 25 says, "holy shit Japan is impossible to beat," it's probably better to explain to them the game mechanics they need to develop in order to jump that roadblock rather than just say "wow git gud Japan is tier 3 all civs beat them lel u lieut scrub".

lessllamas meets the necessary requirements for my official seal of "reasonably intelligent individual".

Ahhhh shit. We can't have that now can we?

Ummmm...

UMMMMM.....

BUFF DRAGOONS???

[Zhanson10]

Yeah, dutch is one of the weakest civ on the RE patch.
Sadly people don't know how to counter japan even as aztec, fre, ger under the pr30-35, that s why they might seem op.

The only two ways I know of beating japan is all out xbow pike rush, or shrine containment paired with stagecoach tps if possible. However, even then you are on a clock. That's what I don't like about japan. Its a civ that will win automatically unless u challenge it. You have to play a specific way to beat it... which makes it very unfun to play against.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yes you have to play a specific way to beat japan, but that's also true for France lol.

[Zhanson10]

Yes you have to play a specific way to beat japan, but that's also true for France lol.

Vs france, you can play age 2 or age 3, and use a wide variety of strats.

[zoom]

Show hidden quotes

Yeah, dutch is one of the weakest civ on the RE patch.
Sadly people don't know how to counter japan even as aztec, fre, ger under the pr30-35, that s why they might seem op.

Yeah, and of course the state of balance is really a relative term. Certain game mechanics or units become significantly stronger or weaker at different levels of play. That's why I've always dislike blanket statements like "Japan is OP" or "Germans are prohibitively the best civilization". Everyone's opinion is going to be tailored to the level of play they're at, or the level of play they spectate (i.e. watching other players on twitch streams).

I'm totally down with balancing the game for top level play because if you're gonna balance it for any level arbitrarily, you might as well make it for the people who are going to use it the most and produce good gameplay. But when somebody who's like PR 25 says, "holy shit Japan is impossible to beat," it's probably better to explain to them the game mechanics they need to develop in order to jump that roadblock rather than just say "wow git gud Japan is tier 3 all civs beat them lel u lieut scrub".

lessllamas meets the necessary requirements for my official seal of "reasonably intelligent individual".

Ahhhh shit. We can't have that now can we?

Ummmm...

UMMMMM.....

BUFF DRAGOONS???

Join ESOC? A slot just opened for heir to the throne of Mankl.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yes you have to play a specific way to beat japan, but that's also true for France lol.

Vs france, you can play age 2 or age 3, and use a wide variety of strats.

No. Like if you play russia, you can't semi ff and you can't play greedy, you have to rush.
It's the same with every civs.

[Zhanson10]

Yes you have to play a specific way to beat japan, but that's also true for France lol.

Vs france, you can play age 2 or age 3, and use a wide variety of strats.

No. Like if you play russia, you can't semi ff and you can't play greedy, you have to rush.
It's the same with every civs.

you can semi ff vs france lol.

[deleted_user]

Show hidden quotes

Yes you have to play a specific way to beat japan, but that's also true for France lol.

Vs france, you can play age 2 or age 3, and use a wide variety of strats.

No. Like if you play russia, you can't semi ff and you can't play greedy, you have to rush.
It's the same with every civs.

you can semi ff vs france lol.

XD

[[Armag] diarouga]

Show hidden quotes

Yes you have to play a specific way to beat japan, but that's also true for France lol.

Vs france, you can play age 2 or age 3, and use a wide variety of strats.

No. Like if you play russia, you can't semi ff and you can't play greedy, you have to rush.
It's the same with every civs.

you can semi ff vs france lol.

I'd say that it is easier to outboom japan as France than winning with a semi ff as Russia vs France^^