Netherlands momuuu
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ESO: Jerom_

08 Jan 2018, 02:23

As of EP 4.0 fishing boats have been reduced in cost to 70 wood. To compensate for this buff, schooners was nerfed. The asian equivalent was not changed in terms of its cost reduction though and now makes fishing boats go down to only 50w plus it gives a dock rickshaw (saving you a valuable 200w). This card can be smoothly incorporated into the china FF build order which results in a faster, yet more economical FF.

Instead of doing the slow thing of chopping 100w for a second village, to then ship the northen refugees card (granting 3 vills), I think its possible right now to only get 1 village, ship the dock card and then use the remaining 100w to get two boats. Any wood treasure can simply be converted into more fishing ships and you can chop with a few vills to get more boats. 50w boats are obviously great as European civs would even go for schooners to acces those, but schooners didnt give anything in the short term. The asian variant gives you a free dock with it, thus smoothly incorporating this into the standard build orders is easily done.

The result is that youre quicker to age 3, with more eco (and you actually save villager seconds as you only need 3 vills on the wonder for a smooth variant) in the forms of fishing ships and, if you please so, the option to train more fishing ships at a really good price (50w for 1 vill is great really, its on par with stagecoach in terms of investment cost and much better than banks for example). The only downside is that you only have 1 village and thus are more susceptible to rushes. On the other hand, unraidable villagers are pretty nice against rushes and china can get extra villages in time with 700w.

I felt like sharing this. It could actually be a top build order.
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Canada Mitoe
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08 Jan 2018, 03:19

I kept thinking dock could be good to add a few extra vills with China, but for some reason I always thought I would have to chop an extra 100w for the dock instead of just sending a dock rickshaw. Not sure how I didn't think of this.

Seems like a decent build, and while I'd hesitate to call it a top build order, I'm sure there are plenty of matchups where it could be a good option. Seems like the age time is the main selling point of this BO. Especially if you happen to get a few solid wood treasures.
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United States of America IntrepidExplorer
Crossbow
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10 Jan 2018, 06:06

Wow, that's genius. Thanks Jerom!
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United States of America noissance
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12 Jan 2018, 01:52

can this build work with japan as well? with the dock wagon i mean...
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Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
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ESO: Jerom_

12 Jan 2018, 23:09

noissance wrote:can this build work with japan as well? with the dock wagon i mean...

Probably the worst one of the bunch, as they are set if they make it to lategame at all anyways.
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Russia yurashic
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13 Jan 2018, 18:06

Yeah it is a good build, I do the same on RE but I chop 40 wood to make 2 boats in age 1. EP buffed it a lot.
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Canada Mitoe
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13 Jan 2018, 19:59

Jerom wrote:
noissance wrote:can this build work with japan as well? with the dock wagon i mean...

Probably the worst one of the bunch, as they are set if they make it to lategame at all anyways.

I think it can work just fine with Japan to be honest. If you compare the value of a 50w fishing boat to a 75w-97w shrine, you're getting a lot more out of the fishing boat.
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Germany yemshi
Jaeger
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13 Jan 2018, 20:03

How would one get 97w shrines?
Great Britain WickedCossack
Retired Contributor
Posts: 1747

13 Jan 2018, 21:01

Someone did this strat this tournament on indonesia, I thought it was goongoon but I can't seem to find the game.

Anyone remember who it was?
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New Zealand zoom
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ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

13 Jan 2018, 21:16

East Indiamen was changed. From -30w to -20w.
Currently effective ESOC Patch notes

Some players: "190w is such an awkward and ugly cost for Villages; not at all like 135w for Manor Houses! Oh, and make Musketeer batches cost 281.25f, 93.75c again!

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Kiribati SirCallen
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13 Jan 2018, 21:36

Sioux water is now OP too
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please stop eating :food:
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France Kaiserklein
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13 Jan 2018, 21:38

The build is probably good in some cases. The problem is that I'm not sure going for a TP start isn't better than getting this eco boost. Being able to get a unit shipment after 700g to defend a rush/raids, or being able to ship 700w after 700g while still having always a shipment ready upon fortress, is probably more valuable whenever facing a rather aggressive civ. And if you're facing a greedy civ, you might want these shipments yourself to apply pressure. But maybe it's the way to go on a no TP map.
Also I'm afraid of what happens in case of a 2 caravels shipment.
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
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Canada Mitoe
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13 Jan 2018, 22:19

yemshi wrote:How would one get 97w shrines?

Is that not the cost of a shrine with Kami but no Port consulate? Or maybe it's 93w. Not sure. I always get the shrine costs from the old AS FP confused with the current patch.
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Serbia sirmusket
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13 Jan 2018, 23:51

Mitoe wrote:
yemshi wrote:How would one get 97w shrines?

Is that not the cost of a shrine with Kami but no Port consulate? Or maybe it's 93w. Not sure. I always get the shrine costs from the old AS FP confused with the current patch.

Ya it's 93w without port conso, but with karni.
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Germany yemshi
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14 Jan 2018, 06:29

That's was not the question though.
How would you get the dock rikshaw for 50w boats AND kami? You'd have to trade off your port consulate for a TP. I mean, you could but if you TP I don't think you can be as passive. Besides with boat production you would get out maybe to two shrines in transition.
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Brazil macacoalbino
Howdah
Posts: 1082
ESO: Chumbo_Grosso_

15 Jan 2018, 19:30

Kaiserklein wrote:The build is probably good in some cases. The problem is that I'm not sure going for a TP start isn't better than getting this eco boost. Being able to get a unit shipment after 700g to defend a rush/raids, or being able to ship 700w after 700g while still having always a shipment ready upon fortress, is probably more valuable whenever facing a rather aggressive civ. And if you're facing a greedy civ, you might want these shipments yourself to apply pressure. But maybe it's the way to go on a no TP map.
Also I'm afraid of what happens in case of a 2 caravels shipment.


700res killing 300 that paid for some of its own cost is ok, as long as the caravels are not useful for anything else.

You can also ship 2 vels for defense and have defenders advantage if you dont want to give up the water for some reason.
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Portugal Kazamkikaz
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24 Jan 2018, 09:23

Mitoe wrote:
yemshi wrote:How would one get 97w shrines?

Is that not the cost of a shrine with Kami but no Port consulate? Or maybe it's 93w. Not sure. I always get the shrine costs from the old AS FP confused with the current patch.

# stop patching the game, 3 years from now, tc will cost 350w, banks have 5000 hp, cheaper boat card will make it cost 10w, rax and stable cost 150w etc just destroying the aoe3 dificulty and give some civ more advantage, alot re maps sometimes hv water in EP version u dont seen anything about sea, some RE maps hv tp line, in EP no, in re some maps hv native, EP no
WTF. :mad: :idea:
#STOP MAKING PATCHS PLZ
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don't take the fight"-Aizamk 2016
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Canada Mitoe
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24 Jan 2018, 10:57

Kazamkikaz wrote:# stop patching the game, 3 years from now, tc will cost 350w, banks have 5000 hp, cheaper boat card will make it cost 10w, rax and stable cost 150w etc just destroying the aoe3 dificulty and give some civ more advantage, alot re maps sometimes hv water in EP version u dont seen anything about sea, some RE maps hv tp line, in EP no, in re some maps hv native, EP no
WTF. :mad: :idea:
#STOP MAKING PATCHS PLZ

I am incredibly confused.
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7898
ESO: Garja

24 Jan 2018, 11:10

you hv no clue
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Italy gamevideo113
Howdah
Posts: 1304
ESO: gamevideo113

24 Jan 2018, 11:17

Mitoe wrote:
Kazamkikaz wrote:# stop patching the game, 3 years from now, tc will cost 350w, banks have 5000 hp, cheaper boat card will make it cost 10w, rax and stable cost 150w etc just destroying the aoe3 dificulty and give some civ more advantage, alot re maps sometimes hv water in EP version u dont seen anything about sea, some RE maps hv tp line, in EP no, in re some maps hv native, EP no
WTF. :mad: :idea:
#STOP MAKING PATCHS PLZ

I am incredibly confused.

He is probably more confused than you
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019

Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
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Netherlands edeholland
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24 Jan 2018, 15:30

yemshi wrote:That's was not the question though.
How would you get the dock rikshaw for 50w boats AND kami? You'd have to trade off your port consulate for a TP. I mean, you could but if you TP I don't think you can be as passive. Besides with boat production you would get out maybe to two shrines in transition.

I think Mitoe was comparing whether 93w shrines are better or 50w are better, because you can only pick one of them. So you don't have to choose whether to make a 50w boat or a 93w shrine, but you have to choose whether to send Kami or the dock card.
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United States of America Darwin_
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ESO: Anonymous_01
Location: United States

24 Jan 2018, 16:41

I think Kaiser is totally right about TP's being superior, but there are a few new maps, like Alaska, where builds like this would work quite nicely. I would probably almost never do the fishing build on a map with a TP, as getting the TP and then shipping 1k wood first in age 3 for an extra tc or two is probably better eco-wise.
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