Japan strategy questions

aoefan4life · Post by **aoefan4life** » 21 Apr 2015, 04:26

- I know the standard BO of shrine card in the first age and 6 vills on food with ports consulate n all that

(when is it not good to do that?)

1. When is it viable to send 300 wood as first card if at all?

2. What is the correct BO vs a strong rush from Iroq. (I know you have to wall but that cost wood

3. If I have to chop 107 wood, should I do anything differently to be faster?

Thx!

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 21 Apr 2015, 05:11

aoefan4life wrote:- I know the standard BO of shrine card in the first age and 6 vills on food with ports consulate n all that

(when is it not good to do that?)

1. When is it viable to send 300 wood as first card if at all?

2. What is the correct BO vs a strong rush from Iroq. (I know you have to wall but that cost wood

3. If I have to chop 107 wood, should I do anything differently to be faster?

Thx!

1. Do you mean 300w for the club rush? It is just bad, on low food maps, it can be viable but imo if you want to raid, just shrine boom and make ashis.

2. Vs iro, do kynesie''s build if you play on a water map, it works very well. Otherwise, build rax asap to make yumis and send 5 ashis as your 1st card if he sends kanyas. Also, you should send the daymio early, it is a very strong shipment.

3. Find wood treasures

Post by **_H2O** » 21 Apr 2015, 05:17

Can you elaborate o n points 1 and 2? I don't know either of those builds myself

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 21 Apr 2015, 05:28

h2o wrote:Can you elaborate o n points 1 and 2? I don''t know either of those builds myself

Some players like spider_xiande do the noob rush build.
300w 1st to make consulate+rax and age2 they send every military shipments and make clubs. I said that it wasn t good imo.

Kynesie''s water build is dock age1, age up with 10vills. While aging he trains some boats and wall all his base.
Age 2, 600w for booming on 3-4 docks, if the opponent rushs which iro is likely to do, just make more walls.
3rd shipment is 2 funes to protect vills gathering wood, then go age 4 without making units.
It works well vs every civs but as iro don t have canons in age3, it is quite easy to win.

aoefan4life · Post by **aoefan4life** » 21 Apr 2015, 06:55

h2o wrote:Can you elaborate o n points 1 and 2? I don''t know either of those builds myself

1. I just read goodspeeds guide and he says the 300 wood is for tp and shrine. (25 + wood is only 200 wood start. Would that ever be good?

2. My biggest issue with Japan is civs doing semi ff vs me and keeping me contained while they boom. Would doing a wall + yumi defense be as good or better than brits lb + wall defense? Preferably vs a really really strong Iroq rush. (Skwzz_Phoenix brits come to mind with that strat from the PK tourney)

@diarouga That seems kinda risky build with Japan but vs bad hunts it does seem good until the enemy ships raged infantry card to shoot them away. The water BO you wrote seems nice though. I guess I could make infantry but can Japan keep up the mass without the eco vs other civs?

Thx for the feedback guys!

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 21 Apr 2015, 08:05

aoefan4life wrote:
h2o wrote:Can you elaborate o n points 1 and 2? I dont know either of those builds myself
1. I just read goodspeeds guide and he says the 300 wood is for tp and shrine. (25 + wood is only 200 wood start. Would that ever be good?

2. My biggest issue with Japan is civs doing semi ff vs me and keeping me contained while they boom. Would doing a wall + yumi defense be as good or better than brits lb + wall defense? Preferably vs a really really strong Iroq rush. (Skwzz_Phoenix brits come to mind with that strat from the PK tourney)

@diarouga That seems kinda risky build with Japan but vs bad hunts it does seem good until the enemy ships raged infantry card to shoot them away. The water BO you wrote seems nice though. I guess I could make infantry but can Japan keep up the mass without the eco vs other civs?

Thx for the feedback guys!

1. Nah 300w 1st sucks

2. Wall is really good but the thing is that with lb behind a wall, your opponent cant damage you however vs japan, he can just kill your shrines. So you have to raid him or take the sea^^.

3. If you boom water, dont make any units before age4^^. Watch some kynesies water recs.

SoldieR · Post by **SoldieR** » 21 Apr 2015, 08:48

In my few jap games I dometimes have had success vs iro aztec and india rushes sending 2 vils (not making age 1 cons) and making just one or two houses during age, then immediate stable or rax depending on opponent civ.

You don't always have to make age 1 con's..and shouldn't vs a total rush

aoefan4life · Post by **aoefan4life** » 21 Apr 2015, 08:49

I guess vs fast rushes I do this.

1. Ship 2 vills

2. make shrines in base in wall formation to protect vills.

3. Make consulate while ageing for anti cav melee units from Japan (good for later rax or stable) + make rax (shrines on wood while ageing and all during while rushed)

4. Ship 5 Yumi

5. Ship 600 wood + 600 wood again

6. Whatever is best for the moment (probablly another shipment of yumi or possibly start the ashi) ... or I can ship sohei for 500 gold and just keep making Yumi longer

-This is my idea vs Iroq... what do you think?

4.

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 21 Apr 2015, 08:51

aoefan4life wrote:I guess vs fast rushes I do this.

1. Ship 2 vills

2. make shrines in base in wall formation to protect vills.

3. Make consulate while ageing for anti cav melee units from Japan (good for later rax or stable) + make rax (shrines on wood while ageing and all during while rushed)

4. Ship 5 Yumi

5. Ship 600 wood + 600 wood again

6. Whatever is best for the moment (probablly another shipment of yumi or possibly start the ashi)

-This is my idea vs Iroq... what do you think?

4.

If the iro is good, it won''t work

Imo, even if you do that, send kami instead of 2vills, that''s really better.
You don''t need to make consulate while aging to hold the rush...

Mitoe · Post by **Mitoe** » 21 Apr 2015, 09:07

Shouldn't Iro still crush that water build if they just rush and kill the TC and stuff and then contain you while they go industrial/imperial and boom with map? :S

Also Kynesie only makes 10 vills when he does that build? o.O

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 21 Apr 2015, 09:14

Yes, he only does 10vills.
First, iro has to pass 3walls, it takes much time. Then, yeah, they kill the TC, but the jap has 15-20vills gathering wood because you build a wall between the tc and the sea and his eco is much better after that.

aoefan4life · Post by **aoefan4life** » 21 Apr 2015, 09:16

diarouga wrote:Yes, he only does 10vills.
First, iro has to pass 3walls, it takes much time. Then, yeah, they kill the TC, but the jap has 15-20vills gathering wood because you build a wall between the tc and the sea and his eco is much better after that.

1. How does he get the food to age up with 10 vills?

2. How do you get that amount of wood so early? Age with free barracks and disregard consulate?

3. Same strat on land expect no sea?

Goodspeed · Post by **Goodspeed** » 21 Apr 2015, 09:25

aoefan4life wrote:
h2o wrote:Can you elaborate o n points 1 and 2? I dont know either of those builds myself
1. I just read goodspeeds guide and he says the 300 wood is for tp and shrine. (25 + wood is only 200 wood start. Would that ever be good?

From guide:

[img style="max-width:100%'" src="http://i.imgur.com/8uU8hwC.png"]

Post by **Kynesie** » 21 Apr 2015, 09:28

I up with 11 vills for my normal water strat. If i anticipate rush, i up with 10. I can make 10/10 if i start with only 200w..

Garja · Post by **Garja** » 21 Apr 2015, 09:32

Water sux.

Post by **Kynesie** » 21 Apr 2015, 09:49

But water exists.Some people may want to play with...

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 21 Apr 2015, 09:52

aoefan4life wrote:
diarouga wrote:Yes, he only does 10vills.
First, iro has to pass 3walls, it takes much time. Then, yeah, they kill the TC, but the jap has 15-20vills gathering wood because you build a wall between the tc and the sea and his eco is much better after that.
1. How does he get the food to age up with 10 vills?

2. How do you get that amount of wood so early? Age with free barracks and disregard consulate?

3. Same strat on land expect no sea?

1. Just make less vills, you ll have less vills but more boats, that s what you want.

2. I don t understand.

3. Watch this rec, it is from a french tournament.

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 21 Apr 2015, 09:52

http://www.solidfiles.com/d/fba8c10d65/ ... p.age3Yrec

Nymphomaniac · Post by **Nymphomaniac** » 21 Apr 2015, 10:02

garja wrote:Water sux.

ye, u made sure it sux while making those ASC maps, didn''t u?? P-)

Garja · Post by **Garja** » 21 Apr 2015, 10:10

I made it sux by beating it. ASC maps or standard maps.

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 21 Apr 2015, 10:27

http://www.rts-sanctuary.com/The-Asian- ... try2377053

Nymphomaniac · Post by **Nymphomaniac** » 21 Apr 2015, 10:31

^ ^lel

[Armag] diarouga · Post by **[Armag] diarouga** » 21 Apr 2015, 10:48

This game is lol, look how it ends.
Imo that s the best way to win a game, after h2o's petards vs veni ofc.

Garja · Post by **Garja** » 21 Apr 2015, 10:53

diarouga wrote:http://www.rts-sanctuary.com/The-Asian-Dynasties/showtopic=218478&'#entry2377053

Ye too bad I didn''t record all the other games where I win in 6 minutes. Ask Kynesie for that lol.
Meanwhile take a look at this http://www.twitch.tv/garjaaoe3/c/6512487

EDIT: tell Kynesie to log this afternoon. It''s time to post a japan water bashing rec for this site.

Mitoe · Post by **Mitoe** » 21 Apr 2015, 10:56

Garja stream moar

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