Nicotine thread

[iNcog]

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[fightinfrenchman]

My dad quit many years ago when I was a kid after nearly nearly 40 years of smoking. I remember him chewing a lot of gum and being very irritable, and tbh both of those still apply 20 years later

[XeeleeFlower]

I'm working on it and failing miserably. Having a cig right now. Longest I've lasted quitting was maybe 2 months. I hate myself for not having the willpower.

[Riotcoke]

Psychs have helped many people quit, i don't know if that's an option.

[XeeleeFlower]

Psychs have helped many people quit, i don't know if that's an option.

Tried it and ended up having a pretty bad trip. Didn't help

[Horsemen]

Psychs have helped many people quit, i don't know if that's an option.

nice rat's tail between your legs

[iNcog]

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[Dolan]

Addiction to smoking is purely psychological, it's like any operant conditioning. It's like when you hear something that reminds you of delicious food, which makes you drool.
It has to do with stress management, people who smoke do so because they think "having a cig" gives them a break from stress.

I don't believe in addiction to nicotine at all. It's just a fabrication of the industry that wants to sell you nicotine patches as a substitute for cigs.

[blackout]

I started proper smoking like 5 years ago or something like that. Always been kind of a party smoker before.
I'm at a point right now where I just accepted that smoking is my bad habit and just go along with it. Also I'm telling myself that I'm gona quit when Ill have kids some day but I guess we will see about that haha

[fightinfrenchman]

Addiction to smoking is purely psychological, it's like any operant conditioning. It's like when you hear something that reminds you of delicious food, which makes you drool.
It has to do with stress management, people who smoke do so because they think "having a cig" gives them a break from stress.

I don't believe in addiction to nicotine at all. It's just a fabrication of the industry that wants to sell you nicotine patches as a substitute for cigs.

Lmao

[Riotcoke]

Psychs have helped many people quit, i don't know if that's an option.

Tried it and ended up having a pretty bad trip. Didn't help

Yeah it's not for everyone, as long as you're in a good frame of mind going into you should end up fine though, maybe no on some analogs of LSD though which generally people end up finding awful.

[Dolan]

Addiction to smoking is purely psychological, it's like any operant conditioning. It's like when you hear something that reminds you of delicious food, which makes you drool.
It has to do with stress management, people who smoke do so because they think "having a cig" gives them a break from stress.

I don't believe in addiction to nicotine at all. It's just a fabrication of the industry that wants to sell you nicotine patches as a substitute for cigs.

Lmao

Read it and weep:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ss_Smokers

[iNcog]

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[iNcog]

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[Dolan]

There's science that shows everything and its contrary. This study I quoted is interesting because it shows that people who were told they were given nicotine substitutes cut down the number of cigarettes/day to a greater extent than those who were told they were given placebo.
This happened regardless of whether the group that believed it had received nicotine was given nicotine or placebo. Tha's rite, there was also a high number of people who received placebo, believed they got nicotine and still reduced the number of cigs/day at more than double the rate than those who believed they received placebo.

Conclusion? The power of self-conditioning is strong. If you believe you get nicotine subs, you are more motivated to cut down on cigs, even if it's not nicotine.

"Physical addiction", just lol.

[Dolan]

Show hidden quotes

Addiction to smoking is purely psychological, it's like any operant conditioning. It's like when you hear something that reminds you of delicious food, which makes you drool.
It has to do with stress management, people who smoke do so because they think "having a cig" gives them a break from stress.

I don't believe in addiction to nicotine at all. It's just a fabrication of the industry that wants to sell you nicotine patches as a substitute for cigs.

Lmao

Read it and weep:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ss_Smokers

I'm curious

how do you tend to determine the legitimacy of an online research article? not all papers can be trusted. how do you vet them?

asking candidly and neutrally

H-index and impact factor.
This article was published in one of APA's journals (Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology) with an h-index of 218, impact factor of 4.3 and 5-year impact of 5.7. Which means on average each paper gets about 4-5 citations per year.
Its h-index is also ok, it's not like Nature that has an h-index of 368, but it's among the first journals in the field.

[Dolan]

Oh btw, that site Research Gate is not a journal, it's something like Scribd for sci papers, a place where ppl share research papers for free. Since, you know, paper publishing is also a business and most of them keep them behind paywalls.
So some ppl created this site where researchers themselves can upload their papers for anyone who requests a copy.
Seeing a paper uploaded there doesn't make it either credible or unreliable. You need to check the journal (and authors) for that.

[evilcheadar]

Psychs have helped many people quit, i don't know if that's an option.

Tried it and ended up having a pretty bad trip. Didn't help

Perhaps try dip?

[fightinfrenchman]

My dad quit many years ago when I was a kid after nearly nearly 40 years of smoking. I remember him chewing a lot of gum and being very irritable, and tbh both of those still apply 20 years later

The gum is sugar free now since he has diabetes

[deleted_user]

I'm partial to Dolan's take except for the very big fact that addictions don't need physical withdrawals to be addictions. And that psychological discomfort can manifest itself as physical discomfort. Smoking is addictive, or else people wouldn't be able to not quit.

Ik Dolan thinks the nicotine addiction myth is another way for Big Tobacco to sell you patches and gum, and I'm partial to any anti B.T. take, but patches and gum when used correctly to taper drastically improves cessations rates.

Dolan's take is also probably a reason that helped him quit himself, so it's reasonable he would keep spouting it.

Quitting smoking should be compass unity and it almost isn't in this thread.

[evilcheadar]

Tbh maybe don't try dip, has more nicotine than smoke products

[Dolan]

O look, a university professor and practicing psychiatrist (at a uni hospital) who argues that the idea of physical addiction to nicotine is the result of corporate lobby among researchers in the 1980s and 1990s in the US of A (the world is still thankful for your influence abroad, btw):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3376000/

Initially, representatives of tobacco industry research organizations supported genetics and psychosomatic research to try to disprove findings that smoking causes lung cancer. Tobacco industry research leaders engaged with investigators because of shared priorities and interests in the brain effects of nicotine. By the 1980s, collaborative funding programs and individual company research and development teams engaged in intramural and extramural basic science studies on the neuropharmacology of nicotine. When mental health researchers outside the industry became interested in the issue of the mentally ill and smoking in the mid-1990s, they increasingly explained it in terms of a disease of nicotine addiction.

What a tinfoil case. Lock her up

[deleted_user]

Overthrow the corporations.

[XeeleeFlower]

I'm telling myself that I'm gona quit when Ill have kids some day

Same. There were plans, but now I'm not sure if I want to have children due to multiple factors so it's making quitting even more difficult.

Psychs have helped many people quit, i don't know if that's an option.

Tried it and ended up having a pretty bad trip. Didn't help

Yeah it's not for everyone, as long as you're in a good frame of mind going into you should end up fine though, maybe no on some analogs of LSD though which generally people end up finding awful.

I tried with shrooms since I read multiple articles about it. Did a guided meditation for the first hour or so. Saw some interesting things. Then saw some scary things, most notably multiple snakes in a corpse turning into two then one giant snake that became the corpse. This was a closed eye visual. I also saw an alien looking down on me from a tree an hour or so later, which was terrifying for me. This was with my eyes open. The alien was simply lights reflecting off the window, which I could logically deduce within seconds, but I also could still see the alien even knowing it was just a reflection of lights. Weird state for me and difficult to describe my emotions. Overall, not a good or helpful trip with regards to quitting smoking, though it was helpful in different ways.

LSD does make me smoke less. I noticed that I will light a cig and only take a hit or two of it. It just doesn't feel right to do any more than that. I do also smoke less the following day or so, but the minimized frequency doesn't last for longer than a few days.

Addiction to smoking is purely psychological, it's like any operant conditioning. It's like when you hear something that reminds you of delicious food, which makes you drool.
It has to do with stress management, people who smoke do so because they think "having a cig" gives them a break from stress.

I don't believe in addiction to nicotine at all. It's just a fabrication of the industry that wants to sell you nicotine patches as a substitute for cigs.

that's funny I thought there was science that showed that it was indeed addictive

but I've also heard that sugar is more addictive than nicotine as well

I just smoked 2 packs back to back, let me see how I feel when I'm done with the last cigs I have left

the nicotine high is real though

Don't let Dolan fool you. It's not purely psychological. There are biological forces at work just as with other chemical addictions. The psychological aspect probably is the core component for most people, but to simply dismiss the chemical dependency of it is irresponsible.

[gamevideo113]

Lol nicotine is definitely addictive, and not "just psychologically" (which is an arguably meaningless label). Not sure how one could argue against that.
I don't think you could explain in any other way why smokers tend to keep smoking. If nicotine wasn't addictive nobody would have any issue in quitting smoking.
It's the same with caffeine, for example. Different class of molecules, but addictions are all very similar between each other.