RE: Neuron and ESOC

[momuuu]

Why isnt this locked yet

Why should it have been locked yet?

at some point it has devolved into pure negativity, but it got back on topic quickly afterwards.

[blackwidow]

What the fuck this thread took a sudden turn, Thanks wickedcossack.

[Papist]

Today, after recovering from the security issues we faced the other day, everyone on the ESOC team decided it would be best to leave the admin accounts with H2O. Due to comments made in the past and several threats made to leave the group, the team did not feel comfortable with Neuron continuing to have access to the admin account to the forums. Neuron changed passwords to both the admin account for our site, our YouTube channel, and our domain, eso-community.net, and refused to share these accounts facing a unanimous vote within the admin group. The group proposed several ideas such as leaving it with someone else but no ideas were really acceptable to him. The language Neuron used also made the team feel threatened and defeated as they felt the site was under control of someone who wasn??t looking to work with the team. The decision was made with 100% agreement to contact support and get control of the admin account. The decision was also made to limit Neuron??s access to the admin functions, after expecting a destructive response.

This is not what you should be quoting to support your position. This just makes it sound like a bunch of buddies decided to take the main account away from the owner and give it to a friend. There was zero justification for taking it away - it is no safer in H20s hands than in Neurons. The hack had nothing to do with a lack of security on Neurons side. The same would have happened if anybody else had it - hackers will get in if they want to.

Also, why did comments Neuron made over the past few months suddenly matter in mid-August? Why would Neuron destroy his own work, especially when he had the main account and was at no risk of being booted at the time anyways? This entire passage sounds like a half-assed attempt to justify removing an admin simply because the team didnt like him.

Refusing to hand over all power to someone simply because he won the teams popularity contest is not a valid reason to boot somebody.

[Papist]

First the pro-ESOC people (including the fucking team ffs) bash Neuron for claiming Stanley supports him, then they (the same people mind you) bash Stanley for supporting Neuron lmao. First Stanley is the great guy who created the site for , then he is irrelevant and doesn't know what he is talking. It is amazing how quickly people can do an about-face when it suits them.

I admit that Neuron said some pretty nasty shit in thi thread, but the pro-ESOC people will literally. Not. Admit. The. Team. Did. Anything. Wrong. This thread is full of unprovoked ad hominem fallacies from the pro-ESOC people in response to myself, Jerom, and anyone else who isn't an H20 cheerleader for questioning logic that leaves a lot to be desired. This is completely uncalled for. How the hell can you deface the character of the person you are debating with, and then claim in the same post to have the higher ground?

And Incog, team votes are questionable when they are driven entirely by emotions.

[kushkush]

Y'all are straight savages lmao

[ssaraf]

+1 @papist...

Frankly, I have seen a logical and rational counter to all the arguments/justification made by the ESOC Admin Staff.

This is so BS, the current tourney staff isn't doing any site admin stuff, why don't u just give him the root account and let him do his thing.
I am sure you can do all the site related stuff you want with you current admin accounts, you don't even need root account for that.
Also, I am sure he will not remove all the work he has put into this site for personal reasons.
Also, you can anyways gain control of the root account if u need (don't actually see a case where you need it) anytime from Proboards, you have already shown that. XD.
Just because you fear and are insecure about it, IS REALLY NO REASON.

So, I really hope atleast one of the admins MANS up and fixes things.

Thanks

[sebbe]

What the fuck!!!!!!!
Are u guys fucking slow? Like u ssaraf..
admins did what every non-retarded person wouldve done.
Thats IT. Show some support to them.

[Papist]

What the fuck!!!!!!!
Are u guys fucking slow? Like u ssaraf..
admins did what every non-retarded person wouldve done.
Thats IT. Show some support to them.

More personal attacks. Looking back through this thread I haven''t given H20 the benefit of the doubt as much as I probably should have, but at least I didn''t lower myself to mudslinging.

[gibson]

What the fuck!!!!!!!
Are u guys fucking slow? Like u ssaraf..
admins did what every non-retarded person wouldve done.
Thats IT. Show some support to them.

In the south we have a saying, Them''s fighin words.

It''s real easy to sit behind your computer screen and just flame other people. However, this is not positive, this does not foster the idea that we have a friendly forum that is welcoming to newcomers, this does not make people think well of you as an individual, and quite frankly makes you look like a dick. When I got my first cell phone, my father told me that I should never say something to someone over text or online that I would not say to them in real life. I think this a good philosophy and I try to do my best to follow it.

I think several people in this thread could learn from that as well. This thread contains many personal attacks that I quite frankly find disappointing. We aren''t here to discuss each other''s characters. For example, this nice post that I quoted here could be changed to, "I think that we should show the moderators some support. They obviously did what they thought was best for the community," instead of the childish form it is in now.

It''s Ironic that people here think they know enough about another person on this forum to even cast judgement on their character. Outside of the few brother tandems that are part of this community, I don''t believe anyone has even met anyone else. Like really? Not only is it completely unprofessional, it''s just flat out ignorant. Even a personal attack like Neuron was using to try to prove a point can be rephrased so that it''s not offensive. Instead of saying " Haha you work at mcdonalds and I have a degree in making websites you don''t know shit about coding you retard," you could say, " In terms of education, I am easily the most qualified, as I have x degree while no one else does."

[iNcog]

Hi,

Getting a bit tired of this. Yes, Neuron said some pretty nasty shit in this thread, and he's been doing it for months really. He's been extremely difficult to work with and that escalated into what we have here today, after Neuron crossed a line with the root admin account.

No, we don't think we handled the situation perfectly, I myself firmly believe that a lot of mistakes were made. We intend to take the necessary precautions to ensure that they don't happen again.

Again, we aren't perfect, nor do we pretend to be. Show a little respect however, to the other people besides Neuron who invested a lot of time into this.

Edit: After mitoe's post below mine I guess Mitoe is right. Nonetheless, Neuron's attitude is the one that led to this situation which we have today, given that we were quite tolerant to his bad attitude for quite a few months. I don't think we were perfect however in no way whatsoever does that excuse what Neuron did. We are respectful and thankful for the work he did and we were respectful when we talked with him, we always attempted to justify why (perhaps this is where we did poorly) we thought that his ideas weren't relevant.

It's a shame it turned out this way and I don't believe we handled it perfectly. However the decision we made was the right one, because what he did is indeed nothing short of inexcusable.

At this point all I can hope for is that people have seen for themselves that we are transparent. We are working towards a community site and nothing else. Please be aware of that and please do not forget that a lot of people have been working and investing into this project. None of them deserve to be disrespected.

[Mitoe]

Well, guess it's about time I made a post.

Let me just go ahead and apologize to Neuron right now. I'm not speaking for the team, but I, at least, am sorry for making this news post. It was written with the intention of??as WickedCossack has already pointed out??letting the community know what's going on and being open about it. We certainly never intended it to escalate like this.

However, I owe you not one apology, but two. Not only am I sorry for making this whole situation public, but I'm sorry for misunderstanding your point of view this whole time. I should have realized that you're the same as us, you were just working on this in your free time like the rest of us, and I understand now why you'd be bummed out for us to turn down some of your ideas in the face of other tasks. This being a non-profit, fun project, I can see why you'd maybe get a little frustrated at us always saying what should or should not be done, and I see now that we should've given you a little more freedom to go ahead and make things happen.

Now, don't misunderstand. I don't think it was never our intention to limit you or your creativity, we only wanted what was best for the community. And, also being people working on this in our free time, we sometimes felt like we needed to prioritize other things which we deemed more "important" for the betterment of the site. I think what we should have kept in mind is that this is a group project, yes, but also a project for each of us as individuals, and if someone wants to have the freedom to have a little bit of fun trying out something cool for the site or something similar, where's the harm?

I don't know if this is where your misguided view of us being some kind of power-hungry, tyrannical regime who only wanted to control things stems from, but I hope that you can come to see it from our perspective too. We all just wanted the site to reflect what we thought was best for the community, and, unfortunately, it led to us turning down some of your ideas from time to time.

I doubt there's any way we can ever start over, but maybe we can put an end to this fruitless bickering and admit that we both could've been communicating a little bit better. As stated in the OP, we are willing to give you access to your code if you still want it, I understand that you spent a lot of time working on it.

Either way, I really am sincerely sorry for that, and I hope you don't continue to hold it against us in the future: maybe this is something we can both learn from. I certainly did, anyway.

[SoldieR]

^its why I love mitoe

[purplesquid]

Well, guess it''s about time I made a post.

Let me just go ahead and apologize to Neuron right now. I''m not speaking for the team, but I, at least, am sorry for making this news post. It was written with the intention of??as WickedCossack has already pointed out??letting the community know what''s going on and being open about it. We certainly never intended it to escalate like this.

However, I owe you not one apology, but two. Not only am I sorry for making this whole situation public, but I''m sorry for misunderstanding your point of view this whole time. I should have realized that you''re the same as us, you were just working on this in your free time like the rest of us, and I understand now why you''d be bummed out for us to turn down some of your ideas in the face of other tasks. This being a non-profit, fun project, I can see why you''d maybe get a little frustrated at us always saying what should or should not be done, and I see now that we should''ve given you a little more freedom to go ahead and make things happen.

Now, don''t misunderstand. I don''t think it was never our intention to limit you or your creativity, we only wanted what was best for the community. And, also being people working on this in our free time, we sometimes felt like we needed to prioritize other things which we deemed more "important" for the betterment of the site. I think what we should have kept in mind is that this is a group project, yes, but also a project for each of us as individuals, and if someone wants to have the freedom to have a little bit of fun trying out something cool for the site or something similar, where''s the harm?

I don''t know if this is where your misguided view of us being some kind of power-hungry, tyrannical regime who only wanted to control things stems from, but I hope that you can come to see it from our perspective too. We all just wanted the site to reflect what we thought was best for the community, and, unfortunately, it led to us turning down some of your ideas from time to time.

I doubt there''s any way we can ever start over, but maybe we can put an end to this fruitless bickering and admit that we both could''ve been communicating a little bit better. As stated in the OP, we are willing to give you access to your code if you still want it, I understand that you spent a lot of time working on it.

Either way, I really am sincerely sorry for that, and I hope you don''t continue to hold it against us in the future: maybe this is something we can both learn from. I certainly did, anyway.

I have not commented yet, but I think this is the most heartfelt commentary of the situation that I have seen. This site is one of the few joys in my life and I am sincerely grateful to everyone who has had a part in it.

To Neuron, I would like to thank you for all the work you have done. The features you have created are truely dope. I would not have had as great an experience with this site if not for you. I am sorry that things ended the way they did, but I want you to know your work is appreciated and was meaningful to me.

To the rest of the ESOC staff, I am personally grateful to each and every one for the time you have put in as well. I hope that this controversy does not discourage you from devoting the time needed to making this site live up to its full potential. I appreciate all the work everyone has done so far and I have the utmost trust that you will continue to work for the betterment of the community.

[momuuu]

Damn, these posts are what Ive been wanting to read for a while. They seriously made me very happy and relieved.

[_H2O]

Thanks Mitoe for writing up such a nice reply. I totally agree and we all made mistakes in how we handled this. We were quite worried about losing the communities trust and felt we needed to be in a defensive posture. It turned out to be a self fulfilling prophecy because that very attitude made us come off as petty.

I personally did feel like the personality that was being used to position the whole thing which only made me feel more defensive.

As I said before many times in Skype chat, pms, and maybe in this thread, personally I am sad that this disagreement has led to parting ways and wish it could go differently. I am sure both of us will learn from this and be more impactful on the projects we do in the future.

The good news is we are already seeing a change in our group internally. This event has gotten us all more active and we are talking about what we do from here.

I don't doubt we will have a cool goodspeed or mitoe news post coming soon with some cool ideas .

[zoom]

After all, news posts are what Goodspeed and Mitoe do...

*kappa*

[Papist]

Thank you for such a candid post Mitoe. It is the sort of thing that the community needs atm. I am glad that you (unlike the other admins) admit that you are not infallible, and that mistakes were made by both parties. For me, that was one of the real sticking points, and the dismissive attitude of some f the admins and their supporters was aggravating for me.

Since you have apologized in this thread, I feel that I should do the same.

@H20. Looking back, I was an asshole to you in this thread in this thread. I did not give you the benefit of the doubt, and attributed a number of mod decisions to you personally. I also strayed from the topic at hand in a number of posts. While I may not have made hominem attacks, I made a number of statements attacking your character, which was completely uncalled for. I am sorry that I was not more objective during this debate, and if you took personal offense at any of my inappropriate comments.

[gibson]

Well, guess it''s about time I made a post.

Let me just go ahead and apologize to Neuron right now. I''m not speaking for the team, but I, at least, am sorry for making this news post. It was written with the intention of??as WickedCossack has already pointed out??letting the community know what''s going on and being open about it. We certainly never intended it to escalate like this.?

However, I owe you not one apology, but two. Not only am I sorry for making this whole situation public, but I''m sorry for misunderstanding your point of view this whole time. I should have realized that you''re the same as us, you were just working on this in your free time like the rest of us, and I understand now why you''d be bummed out for us to turn down some of your ideas in the face of other tasks. This being a non-profit, fun project, I can see why you''d maybe get a little frustrated at us always saying what should or should not be done, and I see now that we should''ve given you a little more freedom to go ahead and make things happen.

Now, don''t misunderstand. I don''t think it was never our intention to limit you or your creativity, we only wanted what was best for the community. And, also being people working on this in our free time, we sometimes felt like we needed to prioritize other things which we deemed more "important" for the betterment of the site. I think what we should have kept in mind is that this is a group project, yes, but also a project for each of us as individuals, and if someone wants to have the freedom to have a little bit of fun trying out something cool for the site or something similar, where''s the harm?

I don''t know if this is where your misguided view of us being some kind of power-hungry, tyrannical regime who only wanted to control things stems from, but I hope that you can come to see it from our perspective too. We all just wanted the site to reflect what we thought was best for the community, and, unfortunately, it led to us turning down some of your ideas from time to time.

I doubt there''s any way we can ever start over, but maybe we can put an end to this fruitless bickering and admit that we both could''ve been communicating a little bit better. As stated in the OP, we are willing to give you access to your code if you still want it, I understand that you spent a lot of time working on it.

Either way, I really am sincerely sorry for that, and I hope you don''t continue to hold it against us in the future: maybe this is something we can both learn from. I certainly did, anyway.

If this saga was a movie this is the part I would cry at

[Mr_Bramboy]

Well fuck you too, Neuron

Taking down the site is surely a way to help the community

[aoefan4life]

Well fuck you too, Neuron

Taking down the site is surely a way to help the community

He''s hurting the community who had nothing to do with his situation.

[momuuu]

If he really is, I guess we could call him quite hypocrite.

[Good ol Ivan]

Why the fuck would you think it was him.
We had the same shit not long ago, and after the first "hack", H2O and the rest of "the team" decided the root account wasn't safe with Neuron.

[momuuu]

Why the fuck would you think it was him.
We had the same shit not long ago, and after the first "hack", H2O and the rest of "the team" decided the root account wasn''t safe with Neuron.

itd make some kind of sense that itd be him. He has a motive.

But yeah, we really cant conclude anything based upon that.